[orionlion82]

Funny that you guys cry about possible no V6 option but at the same time the industry is blaming lack of 4cyl option for the slow sales of the Saturn Aura even though it keeps winning over people in opinion polls.........

Hey I agree, just being a bit of a devils advocate since its been an issue lately.

so is ford gonna take a 5,000 pound car and slap in a D20 and DSG?
see now-

gotta have it matched evenly and whatnot.

i mean sure tweak up a D23 to make up the weight difference so its not so bad. they did it for the fusion. but they can only go so far.
and im a big believer in calling a dog a dog.

id allmost say they are gonna have to detune a V6 to slap in there as a base engine. i just really dont think a bigger heavier car gets a DSG and a big v6 unless its the top-of-the-line one...

were talkin awd, leather, heated seats, moonroof, BigV6 and DSG.

ya know?

(and i dont like a V6 because i like inline power. I6 for me thanks - a V8 is where i can comprimise and all)

 

[Thameth]

I guess you didn't completely read my post......

 

[Wilshire]

so is ford gonna take a 5,000 pound car and slap in a D20 and DSG?

5,000 lbs?:screwy:

The Mk 3 Mondeo weighs 1364-1578 kg, or approximately 3,000-3,480 lbs since you are anti-metric, according to Wikipedia.

The few articles I looked at on google about the Fusion mentioned it has about the same weight. Roughly 3,250 lbs.

 

[orionlion82]

5,000 lbs?:screwy:

The Mk 3 Mondeo weighs 1364-1578 kg, or approximately 3,000-3,480 lbs since you are anti-metric, according to Wikipedia.

The few articles I looked at on google about the Fusion mentioned it has about the same weight. Roughly 3,250 lbs.

well, now i know. (thanks for the conversion, too)

 

[jinstall]

well that is why we are not getting the car. they need to offer a mondeo with v6 and awd in the next gen. I will be a better car overall than the fusion or current mondeo now.

Sorry you are geting the CD245 wether or not you like it. I did not say it would not come with a V6 but that it CURRENTLY does not have a V6 and this can be an issue in the US market. Every Mondeo has had a V6 at some point or another.

 

[jinstall]

Honestly the V6 is only needed for marketing to bring people into the showroom, but most people would really buy the 4 cylinder.

Toyota Camrys are what 90% 4 cylinders? IMO the 5 cylinder making 240hp would be fine in place of a V6. It would at least make the car stand out from the crowd having a different kind of motor than EVERYONE else. (if marketed right)

Audi did it for years. Mercedes did it as well.

 

[jinstall]

The Mondeo with the 240hp ST motor in it is the most HP put in a Mondeo from the factory. The Mondeo ST200 had 200hp the Mondeo ST220 had 220hp and there is not current ST Mondeo but the sport edition has 224hp without a V6. the last Mondeo ST220 was able to get on the autobahn at around 150mph.

 

[rpvitiello]

Audi is big around where i live, so most people consider a V6 a "big" motor. I know allot of the US is not like that, but in places that buy euro they also buy the cars with similar motors too.

and yes i know we will get the mondeo platform, but not in its current form. The next gen will probabally be modified to offer AWD, and be designed to fit a V6 motor for the US market.

The improvements should also help the euro one buy offering even more options, and the shared development budged would save ford money.

unfortunetally dont forget that the US does not care about top speed, but just stop light to stop light 0-60mph times. So they need the car to have a high HP number, but be focused on off the line peformance.

 

[wilko]

Audi is big around where i live, so most people consider a V6 a "big" motor. I know allot of the US is not like that, but in places that buy euro they also buy the cars with similar motors too.

and yes i know we will get the mondeo platform, but not in its current form. The next gen will probabally be modified to offer AWD, and be designed to fit a V6 motor for the US market.

The improvements should also help the euro one buy offering even more options, and the shared development budged would save ford money.

unfortunetally dont forget that the US does not care about top speed, but just stop light to stop light 0-60mph times. So they need the car to have a high HP number, but be focused on off the line peformance.

Really?

 

[Thameth]

Really?

I would agree, yes. Who cares about top speed when it can rarely ever be achieved here in the US. With as much street racing and highway racing we have here its rarely at top speed unless its a Civic vs. a Focus doing 110mph. I would easily bet that 95% of american's only care about that 0-60 number. How much can I pull away from that guy next to me before the next light or before the end of the 1/4 mile.

 

[rpvitiello]

Only reason my area is more “euro” is the way the highways are designed speed limit enforcement is almost impossible. Also handling is more important on the local roads, which are all windy and narrow as hell because they are 500 years old and date back to Indian trading roots.

Most of the US is flat, boring uneventful roads with a stop light every few miles.

If instead of dumbing down a car to the lowest standard in the US and the EU, if you design it to have the acceleration and power Americans expect, with the handling, breaking, top speed, and fit and finish Europeans expect you have a car that is great in BOTH countries. Makes much more sense than developing separate lines of cars, rather than sharing the money to make one GREAT car.

Seams like ford is wasting allot of money on tranney development at this point…

The US developed CVT’s then dropped them for 6 speed autos (at least they mostly shared that with GM though), then the EU ford is pushing to develop a DSG tranney.

Why the hell did they waist the money on the CVT just to get rid of it after 2 years, and then develop a 6 speed auto just to replace it with a DSG a few years later…

Fords R&D for being on such a tight budget seams to just be throwing money away.

 

[jinstall]

I agree, not sure why there is so much R&D on a product. The German car makers don't do it. I see some R&D but not much. People are still buying 6 cyl BMW while the rest of the word gets 4cyl BMW. The lack of engine options from German cars is really amazing. Why has the Golf GT not made it to the US?

 

[slidemaster]

Mondeo vs. Fusion we aren't doing too bad here in the US. But if Ford doesn't offer the dual clutch transmission here you can basically write off the company. They need to give CVTs and slushboxes the heave-ho and use dual clutches in their place everywhere.

Every car model deserves a dual clutch. It isn't just the quick shifts, but also the smoothness of those shifts. Dual clutches are better than slushboxes in every way but won't cost any more to manufacture in high volume. It is a no-brainer. Unfortunately, Ford NA has a tendency to get no-brainers wrong.

I agree, the Fusion would be great with that trans! Vehicle dynamics are real good but the L and D only auto is not worthy. L (BTW) is basically a sport mode from 1st to 3rd)

 

[igor2]

Only reason my area is more “euro” is the way the highways are designed speed limit enforcement is almost impossible. Also handling is more important on the local roads, which are all windy and narrow as hell because they are 500 years old and date back to Indian trading roots.

Most of the US is flat, boring uneventful roads with a stop light every few miles.

If instead of dumbing down a car to the lowest standard in the US and the EU, if you design it to have the acceleration and power Americans expect, with the handling, breaking, top speed, and fit and finish Europeans expect you have a car that is great in BOTH countries. Makes much more sense than developing separate lines of cars, rather than sharing the money to make one GREAT car.

Seams like ford is wasting allot of money on tranney development at this point…

The US developed CVT’s then dropped them for 6 speed autos (at least they mostly shared that with GM though), then the EU ford is pushing to develop a DSG tranney.

Why the hell did they waist the money on the CVT just to get rid of it after 2 years, and then develop a 6 speed auto just to replace it with a DSG a few years later…

Fords R&D for being on such a tight budget seams to just be throwing money away.

1) CVT was not an in house project - ford just bought it from a supplier... it simply did not work out - there customer and media backlash was immense. even Nissan is starting to get flak for their CVT - Chrysler and Ford got it right away.

2) the DSG is not EU project, but corporate project with Gertrag - as I said - 2 US-bound vehicles have it confirmed - MKS and Fiesta/Verve .. Right now only the Volvo S40/V50 and the new Focus have the DSG available with the 2.0l Diesels - but it will expand on both continents.

3) the problem with your thesis of offering a car that works on both sides of the Atlantic is that most Americans consider EU sprung cars to be WAY too stiff and jittery - even VW dumbs down their suspension so Americans do not complain. My thesis is that Ford should offer EU tune in US as "Sport Tune" and offer US tune in EU as "Luxury" tune ... with shared components this will be very easy, and people will have a choice ..

Igor

 

[igor2]

I agree, the Fusion would be great with that trans! Vehicle dynamics are real good but the L and D only auto is not worthy. L (BTW) is basically a sport mode from 1st to 3rd)

people are too hung up on the "sport shift" mode of slushboxes .. It does nothing - and 80% of people never use is .. people who want to shift buy a stick - people who want a slushbox do not want to shift ..

Ford will offer the DSg in many other models after the initial batch.

Igor

 

[rpvitiello]

1) CVT makes sense in cushey cars, not cars with sporting intensions

2) IMO it was developed first for the EU market, but since they plan on mergeing US and EU lines the US gets it too.

3) like i said shared development would let you do that and make the car better with more options on BOTH sides of the pond. This is allready what many EU car makers do

 

[slidemaster]

"Sport Tune" and offer US tune in EU as "Luxury" tune ... with shared components this will be very easy, and people will have a choice .

So true, just a flash of the trans and fuel cam timing and a new car!

 

[Reza]

Igor do you work for ford???

 

[OmniFocus]

1) CVT makes sense in cushey cars, not cars with sporting intensions

...yet ironically it is the best performing option available.

The tach swings to peak output and away you go!

 

[wilko]

i bet a twin clutch hits the mustang first.

I bet it will hit the Mustang when a TT-V6 is the GT engine.