Am I the only one who finds this to be HUGE news?

 

Nope but from reading the comments with the story, it seems the vast majority of America wasn't really paying any attention to what GM was saying about the Volt.

I recall reading about how the volt could have different "range extenders" based on local market. They tossed around the possibility of a fuel cell as well.

Well a fuel cell CANNOT directly power anything.


The MPG figures are whatever, the big news is the that engine directly drives the wheels, that was the one big significant difference between the Volt and other hybrids. The one thing is what was supposed to be revolutionary.

Without that it's just a another hybrid.

 

Hybrid cars are a overpriced joke. The production of the lithium cells causes more enviromental damage than your standard 4-banger ecobox. As for this volt car I think its ugly and yet again way overpriced

 

Hybrid cars are a overpriced joke. The production of the lithium cells causes more enviromental damage than your standard 4-banger ecobox.

are you sure about that? I know that batteries with Ni like the prius uses are very toxic but I hadn't heard about Li being that bad.

Links?

 

Funny thing is I can get 38 mpg in my 08 Focus going an average of 85 mph. I got 45 on a stretch doing average 70.

 

Hybrid cars are a overpriced joke. The production of the lithium cells causes more enviromental damage than your standard 4-banger ecobox. As for this volt car I think its ugly and yet again way overpriced

Yes but the big thing is that Gm told the entire world that it was all electric and it got 230mpg when actaully it is more gasoline and gets less mpg than other hybrids.

Poor tax payers

 

I can't be the only one who saw this coming, can I?

But, just because the EM and the IC drive the wheels simultaneously does not mean the potential to have only the EM drive the wheels isn't there. I'd bet there isn't a 4 C-V shaft arrangement, meaning that along the line somewhere the IC and the EM are combined/reduced to standard 2 C-V shaft arrangement. Also the fact that it will run for a short trip on the EM only. All this means that in the transmission there is an electronic differential. A very savvy tuner may be able to reconfigure the way that differential works and make the IC run as a generator, as GM first intended.

But this seems to be the same shell game most everyone plays. Collect money from investors/presales, offer a different product than sold to investors, investors pull out, company hopes others buy product, product ultimately fails. Seems pretty much SOP nowadays.

 

I can't be the only one who saw this coming, can I?

But, just because the EM and the IC drive the wheels simultaneously does not mean the potential to have only the EM drive the wheels isn't there. I'd bet there isn't a 4 C-V shaft arrangement, meaning that along the line somewhere the IC and the EM are combined/reduced to standard 2 C-V shaft arrangement. Also the fact that it will run for a short trip on the EM only. All this means that in the transmission there is an electronic differential. A very savvy tuner may be able to reconfigure the way that differential works and make the IC run as a generator, as GM first intended.

The article says the gas engine kicks in a certain speed. In other words, once the car hits high speed the batteries are going to drain quick and the gas engine cannot generate enough power to charge the batteries or run the electric motor.

In fact, it sounds like under any driving conditions the gas engine will not be able to replace the power in the batteries faster than it is used.

In otherwords it is a glorified plug in hybrib.

 

Any publicity is good publicity?

 

Lol nay haha

This is pretty horrible to find out...

 

How is this news? Anyone that actually read any info on the car at all should know that if the car doesn't start with a charged battery it will not get infinity mpg. The whole point of this setup was that if you drive a commute day-to-day and plug the car in at night you will never need the gasoline generator to fire up and will essentially travel gasoline free. Gm never hid any of this and has always disclosed that this system is basically an electric drivetrain with a range extending gasoline generator. They just put up the mileage they returned using the EPA testing methods. The EPA testing methods give the Volt an unfair advantage, so while not a lie it is indeed misleading if people are dumb enough not to actually look at how the tech works.

In EPA style testing they were testing the car starting with a charged battery. For alot of people that never really need to go beyond the electric range of the car, you could go months without needing to put gas in the car. Once the battery dies however, the gas engine kicks in and has to recharge the battery. After that you will obviously not be getting the same mileage as you would if the gas engine was competely shut down running on straight electric. Once the batteries are drained the small generator has to charge the 4000lb car while you're still driving it around, of course the mileage won't be stellar. Toss a .9L engine in a Mustang and try driving the car like a normal car, you'll be lucky to see 12mpg.

There is a huge difference between this and the system used in the Prius/CR-Z/Insight/Escape etc. Those are gasoline powered cars that use an electric generator in place of a flywheel. They shut the gas engine off when the car stops, and use the braking system to generate power for the battery packs, but those cars cannot run on straight electricity. This system is an electric drivetrain with a generator hooked up to it. You could take the gas engine out entirely and still drive the car as far as the batteries hold a sufficient charge which is more than enough for many people's daily commute.

I've said it before and wil say it again. If battery tech can improve (and not be such an environmental nightmare to mine) to the point that the electric range is in the hundreds of miles, the batteries shed hundreds of pounds, and GM can get the generating efficiency higher, this could be a technolgy that actually works. The Volt is not at that point obviously, but unless people start trying to devellop new tech and new ideas it will never improve.

 

Did you read the article? The gas engine does directly drive the vehicle. It's not just a glorified generator. All electric was the original idea... but not what GM produced.

 

But GM said it was a true EV, only the electric motor drives the wheels, and that it gets 230 mpg.

That is the news.

 

All electric was the original idea... but not what GM produced.

x2 plus what they advertised

 

I don't think half the people commenting thus far understand how a generator works (or the Jalopnik author).

The IC and the EM have always been connected, probably through the flywheel and an electronic clutch that will disengage the engine.
For a generator to 'charge' a battery it has to be turning some type of EM that generates electricity, which would be the EM of the Volt. When the battery drains and needs a charge the clutch engages the IC with the EM still contacting the FW. As the engine revs so does the EM and the electricity generated by the EM is sent back to the battery. It's that same basic operating principal as an alternator/generator.

The problem is the author is passing the information as though it's a complete redesign of the powertrain when it isn't. He is merely looking at the exact same powertrain from a different angle. The fact that everyone is jumping on this boat means they didn't understand how it worked in the first place. And it is that lack of understanding that is making it seem as though GM lied, when they did not.

 

So the author, Ray Wert, editor in chief of Jalopnik, and Edmunds and Car and Driver and Motor Trend and Popular Mechanics have no clue? Read the article.

"Repeat after us: The Chevrolet Volt's gas engine does not drive the wheels!."

"you're correct that the electric motor is always powering the wheels, whereas in a typical hybrid vehicle the electric motor and the gasoline engine can power the wheels. The greatest advantage of an extended-range electric vehicle like the Volt is the increased all electric range and the significant total vehicle range combined."

This has nothing to do with the inner workings of the Volt, nor the technology behind it.

It has to do with the 230 mpg magically turning into 30 mpg, and the electric only Volt turning into a plug in hybrid.

 

So the author, Ray Wert, editor in chief of Jalopnik, and Edmunds and Car and Driver and Motor Trend and Popular Mechanics have no clue? Read the article.



This has nothing to do with the inner workings of the Volt, nor the technology behind it.

It has to do with the 230 mpg magically turning into 30 mpg, and the electric only Volt turning into a plug in hybrid.

Which Monkey explained why the numbers achevied weren't what was expected.
Nor do any of the cited articles dispute the 230mpg claim (go through and read them).
Nor is it possible to (in some manner) have the IC completely independent of the EM. Unless there is a second EM connected to the IC, which the patent application calls for 2 EM's connected to the IC and all connected by gears in the transmission. eg. by proxy the IC does drive the tires. Like I said, just looking from another angle.

 

I don't know what part you don't get, but you clearly have no understanding of what the article and news it talking about.

Nothing about patents, EM's and IC's, generator's.

It is talking about GM announcing, advertising, saying, typing, whatever it is:

230 MPG AND ALL ELECTRIC

Neither are true.

 

I don't know what part you don't get, but you clearly have no understanding of what the article and news it talking about.

Nothing about patents, EM's and IC's, generator's.

It is talking about GM announcing, advertising, saying, typing, whatever it is:

230 MPG AND ALL ELECTRIC

Neither are true.

I remember 230mpg and all electric being debunked a while ago.

 

My only real issue isn't the car itself... it is that some of the terms of the GM loan/bailout/whatever were based on the merits of what our government required of this vehicle.

...however, the only action I can take is that of a consumer... and there are no GM vehicles out or on the horizon that I plan on spending my hard earned dollars on, so I'm not a relevant consumer.

 

I remember 230mpg and all electric being debunked a while ago.

Sauce or ban?

 

Autoblog.

Type 230 MPG volt in the search bar and press enter.

 

Thanks

From what I read, the way they got 230 mpg was from a new mpg calculating formula for EV's, which the Fed's scrapped, but being that is was formulated by the Fed's I can't believe it is completely untrue.

But that being said, the total EV was still advertised and they never made any move to change their 230 mpg advertisement and it still comes as a shock that none of this is true

 

Meh. Dont expect GM to do anything miraculous besides take out big ass loans from us.

 

The question becomes, was this the design from day 1, or something GM had to change after they realized the car was not capable of sustaining high speeds. There were rumors that GM changed the drivetrain at some point after making the initial claims. What came out today seems to reinforce the idea that the car that is being sold at dealers is NOT the car that GM had originally intended.

1. They did not meet their 40 mile full electric goal.

2. The car is not a pure EV....just a hybrid with emphasis on electric.

This flies in the face of what GM told everyone from the outset.

 

As someone that wasn't really watching what the Volt was doing, I'd fall into the camp with most people of the "It's Just A Car" category thinking the Volt was a totally electric vehicle.

If we ignore the nitty-gritties about how what works, the average consumer out there was probably sold on the idea the Volt was going to be a PURE electric vehicle.

 

Gapboy gets it

 

Gm = fail

 

Hear they changed their name to Government Motors?

 

You guys are taking this a bit far. The car does what it was always supposed to do - electric for x miles and then gas assisted beyond that. Mileage will be great short range, mediocre long range, just like has always been expected.

 

The car does what it was always supposed to do

230 mpg and all electric?

 

mpg and all electric don't work in the same setence, do they? But yes, it still is what it was always advertised. If you don't think so, you're being pretty short sighted and never understood what they were marketing in the first place.

 

No I do, they were marketing it was only ever driven by an electric motor, which has just been shown as untrue.

And they also advertised it as 230 mpg, where it only gets 40 at best

 

They marketed it as getting 230mpg over a 40ish? mile commute. Not that it gets 230mpg driven coast to coast. You don't get it. lol