Then maybe you can answer a question that me and Bill were debating.

How do they compare as far as interior space? I see the numbers, but if you've sat in one, how does it feel?

And for what it's worth; I like the Fiesta ST more than I like the Focus ST. Well, lets be honest. I like the Fiesta ST's price tag more than the Focus ST's pricetag.

 

I'm about 6' and 150lbs and when I sat in one at the Chicago auto show, it did feel kinda tight. I had to move the seat all the way back to fit comfortably and that left almost no room for passengers in the back seat.

 

Back seat legroom means nothing to me since I almost never have anyone with me in the car other than Christie. I've test driven a Fiesta and was fine with it's room. I'm 5'10" and about 250 so I am a lardass for sure. I also like to sit close to the steering wheel, and people think my driving position is crazy, just ask Barry and Jake who have both driven my car after me.

Christie's Focus Titanium feels smaller and tighter inside than Sonic does, but that's because of the center console shape which flows down from the dash taking away some leg room. Even with that her car is incredibly comfortable to drive.

 

I'm 5'10" and about 250 so I am a lardass for sure. I also like to sit close to the steering wheel, and people think my driving position is crazy, just ask Barry and Jake who have both driven my car after me.

Seating:

Hip Room: Fiesta ST: 50.6
SVT Focus: 49.4

It seems as though the numbers do back-up Jason's personal lardass claim and I will personally agree, as he said, that he does like to knaw on his steering wheel while he is driving. (Sorry Jase- couldn't help myself )

 

I curious to know where the weight difference comes in. The fiesta is slightly shorter, but taller and wider. And the brakes are only just under an inch smaller front and rear.

 

I don't know where they're measuring width but the SVT looks wider on the outside and feels wider on the inside (to me anyways) and I just walked out with a tape measure and with a quick rough measurement of the outside edges of the rear tires I come up with about 65" on the Fiesta and 67" on an SVTF.

 

The weight spec for the SVTF is for the ZX3. The ZX5 is another 60lbs. Also, the block in the SVTF is cast iron. I am not sure if the Fiesta block is as well.

 

I believe the block is aluminum for the 1.6eb. The 1.0 is iron.

 

Being a similar size and weight...with similar tire width, I worry that braking performance on the Fiesta would not compare well to the SVT. I guess we will know soon when the car mags start doing their "official" tests.

 

For me at least the biggest difference between the two is the rear suspension set up. I've never driven a front drive car with a twist beam setup like the fiesta but I can tell you I love the way the focus handles. Even the garden variety ones are a blast. No amount of spring stiffening/damper/anti-roll bar tweaking can really ever take the place of a truly independent rear suspension. If you don't believe me go drive an Alfa spider or other live axle car on a twisty road that also happens to be bumpy or have irregular surfaces.
Talk about jekyll and hyde.
The braking disparity will surely be addressed by the aftermarket and quite likely by FRPP. Rear suspension geometry however :dunno:

 

Its not as bad as everyone makes it to be.

Is it revolutionary? No. Is it behind the times? Yes. Does it help keep the almighty sticker price low? Yes. Does it work great in a performance application? Typically.

- Drew

 

I love both STs, but for me, the Fiesta would be out, just like it was when I test drove a "tame" one back when my 2005 Mazda3 died. I'm 6'3", 225 lbs., and it felt way too cramped to me, and for all I hear people saying that it's similarly spaced inside to the original Focus, I don't remember feeling that cramped in my 2001 ZX3. In particular, where it felt awkward was left-right, shoulder space. The salesman rode with me, and I was close enough to him to feel like he was invading my "personal space". He was also a fairly big guy, and were were practically rubbing shoulders. Leg room felt OK, but not great (I feel the same about my 2012 Focus, although I expect it's better than the Fiesta). For those who can fit comfortably in the Fiesta ST, I expect it would be a great little car, especially if it has better steering feel than the non-ST one I drove, which had completely numb steering (another deal breaker for me).

 

especially if it has better steering feel than the non-ST one I drove, which had completely numb steering (another deal breaker for me).

That was my impression of the Fiesta as well. I drive a base Mk3 Focus and I get out thinking that it will be a great platform for ST (or RS) treatment. I drive a base Fiesta and I get out thinking that it will take a lot of real work (not just a better engine and seats but serious changes to driving dynamics) to make the car worthy of ST badges.

 

I'm holding out for a Ford Coupe (probably dreaming) to go up against the BRZ

I did feel the Fiesta interior to be a bit small compared to my SVT. Having someone in the SVT passenger seat makes the SVT feel small, but if I'm alone, it feels perfect. The Fiesta makes me feel like the left side is closing in on me the way the windshield moves to a point, hard to explain, that long narrow dash makes if feel smaller, but I do love the looks of custom fiestas, lowered ones, and the new ST. I'll still try to test drive an ST. I wish the new Focus looked more like the ST.

 

I like the looks of the non-ST Focuses better than the non-ST Fiestas. In both cars, I like the hatchback much better than the sedan, but even more so with the Fiesta. The sedan Fiesta does very little for me style-wise. However, in the ST versions, the tables are turned. I like the looks of the Fiesta ST better than the Focus ST.

 

I wouldn't describe the Corvette rear (and front) suspensions as "leaf spring suspensions". They're a short-long arm (aka double-wishbone) setup like every other performance car on the road. A "leaf-spring suspension" implies a stick-axle suspended by a pair of leaves like a pickup.

Heck, if you buy a set of coilovers for a Corvette, it becomes a coil-spring car.

 

why oh why won't the "leaf spring Corvette" comments die in cyberspace?



anyhoo......for the Fiesta, a twist beam makes sense, makes me oddly more excited to drive/own/**** with/modify........and leaves plenty of budget available for bigger brakes and a bigger gas tank than an old SVT Focus..........oh wait............

 

anyhoo......for the Fiesta, a twist beam makes sense, makes me oddly more excited to drive/own/**** with/modify

That's just because you are an old VW man with a rusty Shine Racing rear bar from a Rabbit sitting in the corner of your garage and you think you can get it to work on a Fiesta!

Personally, I think the control blade rear suspension is one of the key ingredients in what makes the Focus so much fun to drive.

 

If Brandon and I get a Fiesta ST for the Fiesta Movement, we will be doing a series of comparisons between the Focus ST, Focus SVT, and Fiesta ST. I have access to all three cars and can help put a lot of this to rest. From sitting in all three cars, I think the SVT EAP Focus feels tighter and cramped than the regular Fiesta. The Fiesta ST feels about as tight as the SVT Focus and tighter than the Fiesta. The Recaro seats make a huge difference in preceived room. The large bolsters make the ****pit feel really small. I haven't driven the SVT Focus in over a year and have never driven a Fiesta ST. It will take back-to-back tests between all the cars to really make a fair report. The problem with the interior space is that there are hard numbers and then there is preceived space. Console design, dash shape, and seat size makes a huge difference. The larger windows of the 3 door SVT Focus make a big difference too. I plan to have a few different people drive each of the cars and report back on a number of topics.

The Control Blade rear suspension on the SVT Focus is a marvel of suspension engineering. The Twist Beam Fiesta ST is somewhat archaic in comparison. Looking at what happens with the ESC turned off, the twist beam sure makes for a very tail happy Fiesta ST on damp pavement! The Control Blade vs Twist Beam is much like the Live Axle vs IRS arguement. Yes, the IRS is better, but the live axle can be made to work pretty well. I can say there is a lot less bushings that deflect under load with the twist beam compared to the control blade. However, there is a lot less adjustment you can make to the twist beam.

What always amazes me about the Fiesta vs Focus Mk1 comparisons is how similiar they are in size, yet they don't look like it when pictured together. I think the tall roof height of the Fiesta makes it look really narrow and overly tall compared to the Focus. If the Fiesta roof height was lowered, it would do a lot to help with the look of the car.

If all goes well and Brandon and I are agents, I promise to give you guys as much feedback as I can about the Fiesta ST. Right now, all I can do is cross my fingers and hope. I would love the bring the car to Carlisle to show the Focus crowd, but I don't know if we will be agents, will we get a ST, and when we would get the car. Too many unknowns right now to plan anything.

 

The thing about a twist beam is... it is still semi-independent. How much crosstalk there is between the sides depends a little bit on the design. The bad thing is that the stiffer you make it to reduce body roll, the more you decrease the independence. That said, that's exactly what a sway bar does. The lighter you can make the entire twist beam assembly, the better it'll be on choppy roads.

Either way, a lightweight twist beam is worlds better than a solid axle when it comes to staying composed on choppy backroads. No matter how many magazines gush praise on the Mustang about how well tuned the current SRA is, physics dictate that it won't do well being hustled down crappy surfaces. That much suspension mass just can't change directions that quickly.

Of course, even complete garbage suspensions can do well on a glass-smooth racing surface as long as the contact patch is in the right place at the right time... like say... a 1993 Dodge Caravan.

Back to the Fiesta, my bigger concern is with the small brakes. Probably dandy for street and autocross duty, but perhaps a little inadequate for a really aggressive track driver. That said, brakes can be changed.

 

Yes, brakes can easily be changed. I am running SVT Focus 300mm front brakes on my Fiesta, and I am sure something like that can be done for the Fiesta ST. I would also guess there will be more performance brake options for the ST than regular Fiesta.



I know I am sounding like a broken record, but I really think some of you should apply for the Fiesta Movement and try for a ST. There are a number of them that are going to be dedicated to the program. If you look at the current application videos, not too many of them are car enthusiasts. No reason to let a ST end up in the hands of a YouTuber when there are plenty of enthusiasts who will actually use the car for what it was designed for. Make a few minute video and fill out the application form. If the car guys don't get the ST's, we will be watching kids dancing on the roof instead of seeing it carve apexes. I am here to help you guys if you have any questions about the program. Now, get to work!

 

What happens at the end of the movement? What's the end goal?

- Drew

 

What happens at the end of the movement?

A wipe and a flush.

 

That torque figure in the fizzy is impressive.

 

They give you a free party for your birthday at the end.

 

From the last Fiesta Movement, I got to do the following;
-Hoon the Ford VIRRTEX simulator
-Hang out with SVT for the day
-Drive a pre-production GT500
-Ride in a pre-production Raptor
-Have a sit down talk with Jost Capito and see his personal Focus RS
-See the special area behind SVT
-Fly to LA and pull the cover off the FSWerks/3dCarbon Fiesta for the US Fiesta reveal
-Meet with advanced product planners to discuss all sorts of things are coming to market soon
-Met the Fiesta chief engineer
-Met the Fiesta suspension lead engineer
-Host a pet supply donation event to help local animal shelters
-Had a chance to ride with Marcus Gronholm up Pikes Peak during practice (I ran out of vacation time, so I had to skip that)
-Invited to the 2009 X-Games in LA to hang out with the Fiesta RallyX teams
-Had a EU Fiesta for 51 weeks
-Got a decent price on buying my next car
-Met a lot of new friends that have opened up doors to all sorts of new things

I have no idea what is planned for the next Fiesta Movement, but if it involves seat time in a Fiesta ST, I am game. A free Fiesta ST with free fuel and insurance for 8 months sounds like something that will be fun. You won't be able to keep the Fiesta ST at the end since I highly doubt it will be a production car. What better way to fully compare your next car than to live with it for 8 months.

 

Did they provide cameras and laptops for uploading videos and all that social media stuff? Was it a lot of work?

Darkbuddha, the Fiesta interior feels much smaller to me than my SVTF. My biggest gripe? Door cup holder digging into the side of my calf. I don't know if they've changed that since I drove one.

 

I didn't see this mentioned, but I wonder how the Fiesta ST would compare dimensionally with a 5 door Focus SVT... i.e. a 5 door - to - 5 door comparison.

BTW, I think what is obvious is how much larger cars are than they once were, even just a decade ago, let alone 20 years ago. I park my '13 Focus ST next to my '89 XR4TI everyday, and even though the actual size specs are fairly similar, the ST appears obviously larger. Even with just 2 doors, the XR seems to have similar interior volume, at least when you're sitting in it. But what's really disconcerting about it is that the Focus is (was!) often considered a compact car while the XR4TI (and european Sierra) were mid-sized cars in their day.

As Colin Chapman said: "Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."

 

I didn't see this mentioned, but I wonder how the Fiesta ST would compare dimensionally with a 5 door Focus SVT... i.e. a 5 door - to - 5 door comparison.

There's no difference in dimensions interior or exterior between the 3-door SVT and 5-door SVT.

 

so i was at the new york auto show. at the ford area they had these

dont mind the little guy thats my little brother being awesome haha

 

I'm going to necro this ol' thread for some updated discussion. I'll check in after work to add my .02.

 

Let me clarify then. Whilst the two may be roughly similar in size, the performance of the two is not. The Fiesta engine felt agricultural to me (after having a ZX3 and an SVT prior to it) and even with big brakes on it, the car couldn't compare to the level of a Focus when it came to pushing it. Even the ZX3 felt more precise and rewarding to drive fast. Having said that, I'm sure it will seem like I'm ragging on the Fiesta, but fact is I still miss Rhino (our 2011 Fiesta) and enjoyed owning it.

 

I see. I had already forgotten that yours was a base Fiesta. Have you had the opportunity to drive an ST, stock or otherwise since then?

 

In making the basic comparison of chassis' I was tapping on my experience with my ZX3 too. Everyone seems to like to knock the SVT in saying the ST Fiesta is everything the SVT should have been. The SVT was everything I thought my ZX3 should have been.

If I'm ever out in my twisty element in my SVT, I sure hope I run across a Fiesta ST.

 

Ford should have built a RS version.

Circa 250hp, active diff.

What's not to like. I'm quite sure that'll worry a Focus RS.

"What's and if's"......

 

There's a lot of banter and speculation on the ST forums, whether there's a Fiesta RS on the horizon. Between that and Ford's flirty answers to questions of whether one will come to fruition, there's hope.

In the meanwhile, I'm a decision on exhaust away from Stage 3 on my little FiST, and then a larger turbo away from bliss. I'll live that dream for a while...then start thinking about limited slips and the like

 

There's a lot of banter and speculation on the ST forums,

I'm from England...so tight bends and short straights are the norm here.


A RS fiesta will muller the focus version.