[firstonraceday]

Re: intake mani\'s

The dyno will clear up any questions about the cosworth intake. It might be made for stage 3 hmmmm.

 

[HotRodKougar]

Re: intake mani\'s

Omg this is just as entertaining as my old JRSC vs. The World posts back in the day.

 

[blueovalbaboon]

Re: intake mani\'s

Some people had higher expectations of cosworth in the past, and now that the parts and numbers are available are dissapointed.

The intake manifold should really be part of stage 3, not stage 1. Cosworth probably made is part of stage 1 as a flashy selling point. It's a nice piece of hardware, but the low end torque on a mildly modified engine is absent. The manifold will probably be more of a benifit at the stage 3 level.

this is what i've been trying to say all along. Airforce, since you were kind enough to search through my old posts ane everything, you'll also note that i was the FIRST one to be criticial of the Stage 2 dyno, long before walter or anyone else. You'll also note that me and Walter bumped heads over it quite a bit in that, and in ensuing posts.

someday, my engine might want that intake manifold, when i have big enough cams, high enough comp, etc. It might want that manifold, but not until i'm pushing 200 or more whp by my guess.

Certianly not by 180whp.

 

[Peloton25]

Re: intake mani\'s

The intake manifold should really be part of stage 3, not stage 1. Cosworth probably made is part of stage 1 as a flashy selling point. It's a nice piece of hardware, but the low end torque on a mildly modified engine is absent. The manifold will probably be more of a benifit at the stage 3 level.

Exactly... It's a Stage 2 or 3 part in a Stage 1 kit. It changes some things, but fails to make everything better with only Stage 1. They had to break up their parts in some way to allow stepped increases and my guess is that they felt starting with the induction portions of the engine - which they will most likely be able to obtain CARB certification for - was most important.

Imagine if Stage 1 was the CAI and the header. That's probably a more logical step to take, but then if the Intake manifold didn't come in till Stage 2 there would be no chance of getting that CARB certified and probably fewer people would be buying it because of that.

I'll go so far as to say the Cossie Intake Manifold is a mistake for those people who aren't looking to do all the other things mods included in Stage 2 and some of the things included in Stage 3, regardless of who or where those additional pieces might be sourced from (Cosworth or otherwise).

I'm happy to have it in my possession though, even if I haven't gotten around to installing it. It's the first piece in my larger plan. A stepping stone to the future if you will.

>8^)
ER

 

[aerostudent]

Re: intake mani\'s

ok chris here is a nice list of reasons why I don't like Cosworth.
1. No actual dynos, just distorted engine dyno's that make their hp gaiins look gigantic.
2. They have no direct interaction with the forums, I know they watch and I'll bet $20 they even have accounts.
3. Them halfassing things like cams, their cams are small, way too small for anyone with any ambition. They did this so they could ignore the valve springs more or less.
4. I don't like their distribution setup, they use 2 main distributors and thumb their noses at small businesses.
5. Has anyone seen a dyno from the orange car, ever?

 

[HotRodKougar]

Re: intake mani\'s

What cracks me up is all this talk talk talk about parts that 90% of the people who remark never end up getting.

You guys should be grateful that an entity of the likes of Cosworth is even tinkering with an econobox like the Focus, as much of a b*tch that it is to tune.

 

[HotRodKougar]

Re: intake mani\'s

4. I don't like their distribution setup, they use 2 main distributors and thumb their noses at small businesses.

Their distribution setup is the way quite a few large aftermarket manufacturers work.

 

[Peloton25]

Re: intake mani\'s

3. Them halfassing things like cams, their cams are small, way too small for anyone with any ambition. They did this so they could ignore the valve springs more or less.

You can say this about their Stage 2 cam, but the cams for Stage 3 are YTBD. Stage 3 will include valve springs as far as I can tell.

They also offer d-Power4, which allows someone to jump from D-power1 up to Stage 3 while bypassing the purchase of Stage 2, and thus not having to pay for those "half-assed" Stage 2 cams.

>8^)
ER

 

[pzev04boy]

Re: intake mani\'s

What cracks me up is all this talk talk talk about parts that 90% of the people who remark never end up getting.

Or even want because of the lack of useable low end torque.

I can wait for the Superior alternative to cosworth to be made.

The duratec is still an infant. Give it 1, 2, 0r 3 more years and some of you will be putting your cosworth parts on ebay and buying the "next best thing".

I can be patient. I'm taking care of the basics and after a nice set of cran cams and some valve springs I'm going to put my engine mods on hold.

I will concintrate on the interior and the exterior of the car because there are plenty of good products out there right now. And by the time i'm happy with the look of the car, there will be new performance stuff on the market and lots of testing to go with it.

I'll weigh my options as soon as all of them are availiable, and not just go out and buy the first product offered.

 

[HotRodKougar]

Re: intake mani\'s

What cracks me up is all this talk talk talk about parts that 90% of the people who remark never end up getting.

Or even want because of the lack of useable low end torque.

I know, and some of you are going to make informed decisions, from what your post says. Glad to see it.

But I've been on this board for 4 years now, and when I first posted my JRSC'd ZX3 on the Jet, and then the big boost, I dealt with hater upon hater, admonishing it because it didn't give this number on the dyno or that roots blowers suck and turbos get eleventy billion hp or blah blah blah.

Well, look at how popular the JRSC is now. It's rock solid and dependable. It was engineered from day one to be useable on a daily basis. (and now Oscar has finally given you the big boost kit lol)

I believe in the Cosworth setup, because this isn't some small-fry, one-off sheetmetal intake. It's not a copy of someone else's. The company has put a ton of money and time into packages for not only our cars, but motors that are in the Fiesta, the Mazda, and upcoming platforms as well. I've seen the inside of their US facility, and a company that has put together some of the most remarkable engines in history sure as heck knows what they're doing, don't you think? Not to mention all the machine work they do for guys pushing 1000+whp turbo drag cars (hint: Steph Papadakis) This isn't some fly-by-night backwoods shop, that place is as clean as a hospital. To see all the boxes labeled "Cosworth Racing" with that lovely 'Ford Performance Parts' logo below it makes me proud to drive a Focus.

I'm not ragging on the smaller innovators that are out there, like Walter. I'm sure he's going to knock our socks off with small-batch intakes and combos that put out the numbers that this contingent of hardcore enthusiasts wants. But that's not what Cosworth is aiming for. They want all-around performance for the masses. I'm sure they'll release some snotty cams and better tunes in the future, but this is just the beginning. First they have to sell what they have, gauge progress, make decisions, and move forward. It's called business, and a fact that most of you seem to forget about when screaming for horsepower.

 

[pitchblack23]

Re: intake mani\'s

My vapid, uninformed opinion: the Cosworth intake manifold is a spectacular piece. However, it should be paired with modifications that offset its weak point, or driven by someone who enjoys the higher power peak. For drivers who don't think they'll ever make those modifications, or who don't drive in that way, the stock manifold or other yet-to-come aftermarket pieces may be a better choice.

I'm still trying to decide whether I really want it or not.

 

[HotRodKougar]

Re: intake mani\'s

Thing is, even if you don't or aren't used to wringing the car out now, you will love it once you realize you are able too. Kinda like being on the pipe of a 2stroke dirtbike, you learn the new powerband and boy is it fun...

 

[mtx_zx3]

Re: intake mani\'s

the only thing i dont like about the cosworth is where it moves the powerband
it is a very nice whole kit.. but even though it has the hp up top, torque still matters... ALOT

take for example... a 99 civic si, 160hp 111tq stock.. with a very high powerband...

ive raced my friend... (on a closed circuit of course) .. at a 40mph roll, both of us started in the upper rpms.. when my car was stock .. he had an intake and exhaust... the cars were abotu dead even in every way..
once i got my intake.. he had gotten a greddy header, so he now had an intake and full greddy exhaust... my car would pull on his HARD at every rpm... it absolutely destroyed him..

i would NOT buy the cosworth stuff.. because i dont want to turn my car into a honda... (or make it more like a honda)

 

[HotRodKougar]

Re: intake mani\'s

I drove a basically stock '89 CRX Si for almost a year. I loved how I could beat on that car, wring it out, all of my favorite sweeping on and offramps were easy fodder. 3rd gear, keep her about 4500rpm... whheeeeee all the way up to redline.

Guess I just prefer the high rpms.

 

[Conoval]

Re: intake mani\'s

What cracks me up is all this talk talk talk about parts that 90% of the people who remark never end up getting.

You guys should be grateful that an entity of the likes of Cosworth is even tinkering with an econobox like the Focus, as much of a b*tch that it is to tune.

I agree. One would think that anyone with a duratec engine would be happy that Cosworth is producing parts. I definitely would have never thought that there would be so many people whining about "torque loss" and price. If you don't like the results, don't buy the parts. If you don't like the price, buy something cheaper.

 

[Z63R]

Re: intake mani\'s

To you, Sir, and pzev04boy:

There's maybe three people 'whining' about torque loss; I'm one of them. And at this point, it's all theory anyway from those of us talking out of our asses. lol.

And if you took the time to read my posts in their entirety, you'd find that I sing the praises of Cosworth.

It's not right for what I want right now, though.

A fundamentally stock 2.3 Duratec Cali car, with mild airflow improvments.

Throw in some euro lighting, SVT suspension, bitchin' wheels and gumball tires, and I have a winner of a transpo/road car.

A car that I will have to revert back to stock for Cali's stringent emissons testing. Oh, and it's a PZEV standard.

I am not sufficiently motivated to reinstall that OE manifold and manicat.

Work's been good for me lately, so in a year or so, I might have enough dough to buy a used 2.3 5-speed; then I can yank all that crap off of there and go straight to Cosworth Level 3 and beyond. Register it for off-highway use,trailer it and run it at the track. Hard. No emissions issues.

 

[mtx_zx3]

Re: intake mani\'s

also.. hondas have incredibly short gear ratios.. take a 2005 si for example.. final drive is 4.764!!!
they have very high gears to make up for the low torque
heck the duratec is enough of a dog at lower rpms with the 3.42's ... i cannot imagine it with the cosworth torque levels and powerband

 

[pzev04boy]

Re: intake mani\'s

What cracks me up is all this talk talk talk about parts that 90% of the people who remark never end up getting.

You guys should be grateful that an entity of the likes of Cosworth is even tinkering with an econobox like the Focus, as much of a b*tch that it is to tune.

I agree. One would think that anyone with a duratec engine would be happy that Cosworth is producing parts. I definitely would have never thought that there would be so many people whining about "torque loss" and price. If you don't like the results, don't buy the parts. If you don't like the price, buy something cheaper.

Who is complaining about price?

 

[Peloton25]

Re: intake mani\'s

Who is complaining about price?

<--- Not this guy!!

But I've seen more than a few people comparing the prices of the Cosworth parts to other available options. I believe he is talking generally, not specifically about posts in this thread, or even the manifold itself btw.

>8^)
ER

 

[Oreo]

Re: intake mani\'s

I'm sure [Walter Marcy is] going to knock our socks off with small-batch intakes and combos that put out the numbers that this contingent of hardcore enthusiasts wants. But that's not what Cosworth is aiming for. They want all-around performance for the masses. I'm sure they'll release some snotty cams and better tunes in the future, but this is just the beginning. First they have to sell what they have, gauge progress, make decisions, and move forward. It's called business, and a fact that most of you seem to forget about when screaming for horsepower.

This statement is interesting. In my personal, humble oppinion, I thing that Cosworth is designing products that are most suited to the "hard core enthusiasts", and intentionally or unintentionally MARKETING them to the masses. Sounds to me like a successful BUSINESS move.

I THINK Walter Marcy is designing products more well suited to the masses, that are of such efficacy that they catch the attention of the hard-core enthusiasts. Problem is that he's operating in the shadow of a GIANT. SO, you get the classic Walmart vs. Mom & Pop. There are plenty of reasons to love & hate either side for what they are, and for the nature of their products.

I worry that we may lose Walter because of the business side of things... and whether you love or hate Cosworth, I think that Walter brings something to our comunity that Cosworth never could in their wildest dreams... unfortuneatly what Walter brings is tough to make money on when behind such a shadow.