Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

also interested in this...

 

Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

The word across the pond is that you can use Mondeo MK3 knuckles with ST170/SVT calipers for 5-lugs in front. Since I have an SVT I wonder if Mondeo hubs will press into SVT knuckles, but I'm not planing on converting to 5-lug. I know the 05-07 front set up is similar to the SVT, it might be worth researching.


I stumbled across this on one of the UK forums..

Rear Brake Specifications

Standard rear

Brake Pads - 4 x 87.2 x 42.5 x 14.5mm
Brake Discs – (Unique to standard) Mountings 4 Disc Diameter 253.0mm Disc Thickness 10.0mm Overall height 33.0mm Centre Diameter 63.6mm
Caliper Same as ST and RS.- LUCAS / GIRLING Caliper Piston Diameter 34.0mm
Caliper Bracket – Unique to standard
Hub - STD as S.T
Cable – Unique to standard - 1762mm



ST Rear

Brake Pads - 4 Brake Pads 87.2 x 42.5 x 14.5mm
Brake Discs – Mountings 4 Disc Diameter 281.0mm Disc Thickness 10.0mm Overall height 33.0mm Centre Diameter 63.6mm
Caliper - Same as ST and RS.- LUCAS / GIRLING Caliper Piston Diameter 34.0mm
Caliper Bracket – Unique to ST same as RS
Hub - Same as Standard
Cable – Unique to ST same as RS (Slightly longer than standard)


RS rear

Brake Pads - 4 Brake Pads 87.2 x 42.5 x 14.5mm
Brake Discs – 4, Disc Diameter 280.0mm, Disc Thickness 12.0mm, Overall Height 43.0mm, Hub Hole Diameter 63.5mm
Caliper same as ST and STD.- LUCAS / GIRLING Caliper Piston Diameter 34.0mm
Caliper Bracket – ST same as RS
Hub - Unique to RS
Cable –ST same as RS (Slightly longer than standard)

Bigger Brake Conversions

(Running any big brake conversion with abs increases the risk of warped discs)

300mm Front Brakes

ST170 Hub/knuckles or Escort/Fiesta 95-00 hubs/knuckles
ST170 Calipers or Mondeo MK3 Caliper
ST170 300mm brake discs

330mm RS Front Brakes
Escort/Fiesta 95-00 hubs/knuckles (Capable of fitting any sized disc, Direct bolt onto focus)
RS 330mm Brake Disc
RS Brembo Calipers (Seat Cupra R, Alfa ,406 coupe, lancia brembo’s all fit focus)


RS Brembo’s on ST170 Hub’s

ST170 Hubs/Knuckles
RS Brembo Calipers (Seat cupra r, alfa ,406 coupe, lancia brembo’s all fit focus)
RS Brake Discs
Longer Wheel Stud’s
MDA Caipler Holder Plates


320mm ST225 ASBO Caliper

ST170 Front Hub/Knucle
ST225 ASBO Calipers
ST225 320mm Brake Disc (Requires a hole drilling to fit 4 stud hubs)
4mm Wheel Spacer

5 Stud Wheel Conversions

Front
Mondeo MK3 Hub/Knuckle
Mondeo MK3 or ST170 Caliper

Rear
Transit Connect rear brake set up

They didn't say what rotor I guess the Mondeo, I looked and the Mondeo and SVT/ST have the same diameter and offset.

 

Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

I read about that one, but I think the Mondeo is 5x108 which i think is even worse than 4x108.

Still thanks for the info!

 

Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

You'll need a hybrid axle with a Focus inner and a MS3 outer.

I'm not sure on the strut, but if the strut mount diameter on the MS3 knuckle is the same as the 06-11 Focus, you could potentially use a Massive Omni-Kit to adapt the Focus struts... or just have some custom inserts machined.

Gold Coast Automotive has done this before, but as of right now, I don't think anybody has given them money for any conversion parts, and they keep providing free advice on the topic.

 

Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

You'll need a hybrid axle with a Focus inner and a MS3 outer.

I'm not sure on the strut, but if the strut mount diameter on the MS3 knuckle is the same as the 06-11 Focus, you could potentially use a Massive Omni-Kit to adapt the Focus struts... or just have some custom inserts machined.

Gold Coast Automotive has done this before, but as of right now, I don't think anybody has given them money for any conversion parts, and they keep providing free advice on the topic.

I'll try and get in contact with them. I wish I could just throw the Mazda 2.3 axle on there, but I'm sure the splines differ. Thanks again for the info.

Why not just get a rear disc kit and have your hubs/rotors re-drilled to 5x114? I think in the long run it would be easier and about the same cost if not cheaper.

This seems more fun!

For me it is more about the robustness of the hardware. The Focus hubs/bearings are a real weak point in these cars.

They'll break if you even look at them funny.

Haha!

 

Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

Why not just get a rear disc kit and have your hubs/rotors re-drilled to 5x114? I think in the long run it would be easier and about the same cost if not cheaper.

 

Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

For me it is more about the robustness of the hardware. The Focus hubs/bearings are a real weak point in these cars.

They'll break if you even look at them funny.

 

Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

For me it is more about the robustness of the hardware. The Focus hubs/bearings are a real weak point in these cars.

They'll break if you even look at them funny.

I agree with this statement 110%.

-Matt

 

Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

Well thats a good reason not to do the re-drill.

 

Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

The re-drill is perfectly safe for a street car... so if that is the goal, then you're good to go.

I've been planning a Mazda 3 swap for a while and hope to get it done over the winter. The biggest downside is that my entire wheel collection will have to go.

The few things I've figure out without spending money:

The Mazdaspeed3 and Mazda 3 knuckles, bearings, and hubs appear to be the same parts.

The Focus front bearing is 72mm in diameter, 36mm wide, and fits a 38mm hub shaft.
The Mazda front bearing is 80mm in diameter, 45mm wide and fits a 42mm hub shaft.

That's a pretty big increase in beef.

The Focus uses a 25 spline x ?mm outer, whereas the Mazda 3 uses a 28 spline x ?mm outer.
Axle lengths are all over the map depending upon transaxle type.

The big question is whether or not the inner CV shaft shares the same splines into the cage and tripod. If so, it is plug and play to assemble a hybrid axle. If not, a custom shaft would be required.

 

Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

The Focus uses a 25 spline x ?mm outer, whereas the Mazda 3 uses a 28 spline x ?mm outer.
Axle lengths are all over the map depending upon transaxle type.

The big question is whether or not the inner CV shaft shares the same splines into the cage and tripod. If so, it is plug and play to assemble a hybrid axle. If not, a custom shaft would be required.

That would be fantastic! I messaged Gold Coast to get more info on the axle.

 

Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

Well, I decided to put my money where my mouth is. I just bought an ebay knuckle and an axle for some research.

 

Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

Well, I decided to put my money where my mouth is. I just bought an ebay knuckle and an axle for some research.

Awesome! I'm planning on doing some junkyard research soon!

And in regards to the link you posted:

Well it says he put together 3 different axles. Hopefully when he gets back to me,he'll reveal which ones.

 

Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

Also, for more reference:

http://forums.focaljet.com/gp-werks-gold-coast-automotive/659574-mazda3-hubs.html

 

Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

Well, the inner joint is definitely from a Focus axle, the outer joint is definitely from a Mazda axle... the mystery may be what the axle shaft is from. The driver side Mazda axle shaft varies in length depending upon which engine/tranny combo.

 

Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

I hope its not something terribly odd.

 

Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

Well... I got the Mazda knuckle.

I'm not sure this modification is for the faint of heart.

Mazda 3 vs SVT Knuckle:

Brake Caliper Hole Spacing: 3 9/16" vs 3 9/16"
Brake Caliper Hole to Hub Center: 3 1/16" vs 3 1/16" (These two are cool, because potentially aftermarket Focus brake kits could still be made to fit. My Wilwood setup has a shared 5/4 lug face, so other than addressing the offset, they should bolt on.

Ball Joint Pin Center to Hub Face: 2 7/8" vs 2 5/8" (This moves the bottom of the knuckle 1/4" farther out toward your fenders, which would add camber, except...)

Steering Arm: 5 5/8" vs 5" (This is kind of bad - slows your steering ratio and increases your turning circle)

If my math is right, that's 10 degrees versus 12 degrees per linear inch of rack travel on center, or a 16.6% loss in steering rate. There is enough meat that you could potentially drill another tapered hole next to the original if you wanted to correct that, though it would no longer be on the flatted area, so you'd need to add a little material.

Strut Center to Hub Face: 6 7/8" versus 6 3/8". (This isn't so hot... it moves the top of the knuckle out 1/2", which reduces camber. Half of that is cancelled out by the ball joint pin center to hub face increase. The net result is a hub face around 1/4-5/16" further out. You could use some very aggressive camber plates at the top to correct this, but at a minimum, you're looking at 1/2" increased track width)

Ball joint bolt center to axle center: 3 7/8" vs 3 3/8". (This is actually good... it is like installing extended ball joints and will put your control arms at a better angle on a lowered car)

Strut bolt to axle center: 4" vs 3 1/4": (This is not good at all. If you use Focus struts, it'll lift the car 3/4", and if you lower it, you're losing 3/4" of travel. You could compensate in a number of different ways: 1) Modify the shock body so it sits 3/4" further into the knuckle. 2) Raise the upper mount at the strut towers 3/4". 3) Install an alternate shortened shock body.

Strut bore: 51.8mm vs 45.5mm (This is maybe okay. 06-11 Foci use 50mm strut bodies, which would probably work, or a Massive Omni-kit could do the trick. This hole closes when the bolt is tightened. I see online that a Mazda strut is 52mm, so you might need to add a little more to the massive Omni-kit if you're going to use a Focus strut. You could also machine a kit with an angled hole to correct camber... I've done that and it works, but we're getting more expensive that way.

Steering tie-rod pin taper: 11.5 to 14.5 vs 12.1 to 14.6 (This are probably the same, just rust and machine tolerances.)

Ball Joint Pin: 17.8mm vs 16.4mm (I forgot the 06-11 ball joint pin size, but it is probably a direct fit)

So... that's where I'm at.

 

Re: I'm sorry if people are sick of this topic! Mazda 3 goodies on 05 zx3

Well... I got the Mazda knuckle.

I'm not sure this modification is for the faint of heart.

Mazda 3 vs SVT Knuckle:

Brake Caliper Hole Spacing: 3 9/16" vs 3 9/16"
Brake Caliper Hole to Hub Center: 3 1/16" vs 3 1/16" (These two are cool, because potentially aftermarket Focus brake kits could still be made to fit. My Wilwood setup has a shared 5/4 lug face, so other than addressing the offset, they should bolt on.

Ball Joint Pin Center to Hub Face: 2 7/8" vs 2 5/8" (This moves the bottom of the knuckle 1/4" farther out toward your fenders, which would add camber, except...)

Steering Arm: 5 5/8" vs 5" (This is kind of bad - slows your steering ratio and increases your turning circle)

If my math is right, that's 10 degrees versus 12 degrees per linear inch of rack travel on center, or a 16.6% loss in steering rate. There is enough meat that you could potentially drill another tapered hole next to the original if you wanted to correct that, though it would no longer be on the flatted area, so you'd need to add a little material.

Strut Center to Hub Face: 6 7/8" versus 6 3/8". (This isn't so hot... it moves the top of the knuckle out 1/2", which reduces camber. Half of that is cancelled out by the ball joint pin center to hub face increase. The net result is a hub face around 1/4-5/16" further out. You could use some very aggressive camber plates at the top to correct this, but at a minimum, you're looking at 1/2" increased track width)

Ball joint bolt center to axle center: 3 7/8" vs 3 3/8". (This is actually good... it is like installing extended ball joints and will put your control arms at a better angle on a lowered car)

Strut bolt to axle center: 4" vs 3 1/4": (This is not good at all. If you use Focus struts, it'll lift the car 3/4", and if you lower it, you're losing 3/4" of travel. You could compensate in a number of different ways: 1) Modify the shock body so it sits 3/4" further into the knuckle. 2) Raise the upper mount at the strut towers 3/4". 3) Install an alternate shortened shock body.

Strut bore: 51.8mm vs 45.5mm (This is maybe okay. 06-11 Foci use 50mm strut bodies, which would probably work, or a Massive Omni-kit could do the trick. This hole closes when the bolt is tightened. I see online that a Mazda strut is 52mm, so you might need to add a little more to the massive Omni-kit if you're going to use a Focus strut. You could also machine a kit with an angled hole to correct camber... I've done that and it works, but we're getting more expensive that way.

Steering tie-rod pin taper: 11.5 to 14.5 vs 12.1 to 14.6 (This are probably the same, just rust and machine tolerances.)

Ball Joint Pin: 17.8mm vs 16.4mm (I forgot the 06-11 ball joint pin size, but it is probably a direct fit)

So... that's where I'm at.

What year and which side knuckle are you using?

 

A little more work:

Since I have my Focus torn apart for a clutch job, I tried my TCE front rotors on the Mazda knuckles, and as it turns out the second bolt pattern on my rotors is 5x114.3, but the Mazda hub bore is 67.1. Looks like my brake solution might be free.

I took a look at the *rear* Mazda 3 hubs, and all the C1-based cars use a different style hub assembly where a portion of the stub axle comes rearward of the spindle face. This means you'd have to cut a hole and potentially drill new mounting holes for it.

....BUT! I looked, and the Mazda 6 rear hubs use a separate spindle/hub design that looks exactly like an SVT Focus setup. I ordered a pair of Mazda six knuckles/hubs, and if I'm correct, they'll bolt up and maybe even use the same brakes.

More food for thought on the front: I noticed that the strut bore in the knuckle appears to be at a different angle. This will affect camber, and perhaps make my previous thoughts on upper camber plates obsolete. I'll measure the angle sometime this week.

EDIT: Technical mistake, the Mazda hub bore is 67.1, not 63.3.

 

Just curious, what car are you using? The FSP car or the black one?

I've been following this now because I'm really interested to see how this goes.

 

Black one. These parts would not be class legal on the FSP car.

On another note, I just ordered a pair of 05-11 Focus ball joints to see if they'll fit the Mazda knuckle. I suspect they will.

 

now i'm interested....

 

I have a parts list!

Front:

-M3 knuckles
-Control Arms
-Rotors
-Struts

Rear:
-Trailing arms
-hubs
-calipers
-rotors
-sway bar
-brake cables



Gold Coast Automotive makes the kit for $1600 which includes the axles, but also just sells the axles alone.

 

$1600 isn't bad at all for all the parts. Considering what a few members have paid for a re-drill and rear disc conversions.

 

Lorin. Thanks for doing these measurements.

 

Lorin. The later Focus ball joint stud is common with the C1 chassis. Thanks for doing these measurements.

The Mazda 3 ball joint is not the same as the Focus. The Focus ball joint is "Tapered" (top and bottom is slight different size), the Mazda 3 is not, and it is bigger diameter.

 

OmniFocus, are you doing your research in terms of standard foci or against an SVT?

 

Versus SVT... geometrically, the SVT and standard knuckles are the same, the only difference is brake mounting. Early knuckles have no provision for aftermarket brakes without modification.

In the rear, I think the Mazda 6 setup might be the way to go, because you can use the stock rear arms... but I won't know for sure until my goodies arrive.

...I don't even own a set of 5x114.3 wheels yet, but I know what they'll be when I do.

 

...I don't even own a set of 5x114.3 wheels yet, but I know what they'll be when I do.

Tarmacs! Lorin goes stance! :lol:

 

I've been thinking about this a bit as well:

Rear: If you bought a Mazda3 rear trailing arm complete with knuckle, hub, caliper, and rotor, would this be a drop-in replacement for the focus trailing arm?

Front: Are Mazda 3 2.3L 5spd axles & hubs the same as 2.3L Duratec axles & hubs? If that was the case, a knuckle & brake swap up front would get you 5 lug, but I think the balljoints may be slightly different.

Then of course there are brake lines & e-brake cables to worry about.

Edit: Just did a bit more reading above. Going to be jelly of the first one to do this

 

Rear: If you bought a Mazda3 rear trailing arm complete with knuckle, hub, caliper, and rotor, would this be a drop-in replacement for the focus trailing arm?

Front: Are Mazda 3 2.3L 5spd axles & hubs the same as 2.3L Duratec axles & hubs? If that was the case, a knuckle & brake swap up front would get you 5 lug, but I think the balljoints may be slightly different.

Edit: Just did a bit more reading above. Going to be jelly of the first one to do this

You probably already figured this out from your additional reading, but the Mazda 3 axles and hubs are different than the 2.3L Duratec parts. The hubs/bearings, and outer CV are the same for all 1998-2011 Focuses, regardless of engine.

As for the front, maybe. The parts list from Gold Coast suggests a little more to it. I think the Mazda 6 parts will be the way to go in the rear.

As for brake fluid lines, any that don't fit directly should be cake. Just head on down to your local Parker distributor and they'll put together any brake line you want. I've got custom lines on a couple of my cars.

 

Yeah,the axles are made up of 3 different axles is what I heard. I imagine this could be done for a lot cheaper via junkyard and maybe just buying the axles through Gold Coast. If I follow through, this is what I would do.

 

OMNI! How would this setup you are talking about in the rear differ for me with the 2005?