Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

As nice as an SVT version would be, I just dont think there is a market for this blower. Unless they can re-work their kit with minimal cost and headache I just dont see it happening.

Look how many SVT vortechs there are... very few.
The sad fact is, that people who buy a focus, can't really afford the high end stuff. Not to many people are willing to drop 5K in one upgrade.

I hope they make one, but I'm doubtful that they will.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

It may be doubtful they will make one for the SVT, but the results are simply impressive. That dyno chart is incredible!

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

Still too early in the market to tell. Most SVTF's are probably still under warranty and owned "by the bank."

That would be my sole contribution to this thread if the SVTF hadn't been axed . . .Normally I'd say wait a little while, but with no market "growth" it could really be up in the air.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

What all do you think they would need to change to make it work with the SVT? Should not really be that much I would think?

Also, I think maybe why there are not more Vortech kits, is that they are one of those installs most people would rather pay to have done. So its hard to justify the total price of the kit + install. I mean with the Vortech you have to tap the block (not a big deal but still scares most people), move the battery, and so forth. Now take a look at the JRSC kits out there, seems to be quite a few from what I can tell. This could be because they are cheaper, but they are also a lot easier install that I think most people would fill they could accomplish by themselves. I would expect the powerworks to be more along the lines of the JRSC as far as install goes only slightly tougher.

Looking at the SVT's FI options, personally I'd love to go turbo, but I don't like removing the cat. I also don't like the kits out there because of cost and what you get for it, also I don't really want to custom build a kit since my car will be a daily driver.

The Vortech makes impressive power, but I have had bad experiences with their kit in the past on another car. I really didn't like how they used brass fittings for the oil lines because they leaked (and was told strickly NOT to use anything to help seal the threads because it could get into the supercharger head and cause problems). We tried like 2 sets of fittings and could not get it to quit leaking, it was a slow/minor leak but still, oil and dirt make for a very dirty engine bay. I could get a new SVT Vortech (aftercooled kit) right now for about $2700 from a friend. But after my first experience with their kit, I really want to see if the PowerWorks kit is coming, because if it is I would much rather go that route. If all else fails the Vortech is my backup plan.

The Procharger kit sounds nice but nobody's really done it on an SVT and they offer no tuning, also I really dislike their intercooler mounted below the engine and also that the head unit is so close to the ground.

The JRSC, well its just not going to be enough for what I would want to do with it.

Nitrous is nitrous, I am not really interested in power thats not there all the time.

So, the powerworks in my situation would be perfect, fairly easy install (from the looks of it), power across the board with the potential to make near the same peak numbers as the best FI out there but with a lot more low-midrange power (great for daily driver). It would be more expensive, but then again it would fit my needs a lot better also so I'd be willing to go that route.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

If you can get a NEW Vortech with aftercooler For $2700
Then Buy it. This kit sale for over $4000

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

I think one thing that has to be taken into consideration is the target buyer for after market parts. Although the SVT focus has fewer numbers, I think the type of buyer who buys an SVT is more apt to buy after market performance modifications. The choice to buy the SVT version, was a choice made on the performance and quality. Although there are other blowers on the market, none of them show the attention to detail and the quality that the PowerWorks SC does. This products exudes quality and is a kit with out compromise that reflects the attributes that attracted most buyers to the SVT version of the focus. I think PowerWorks would sell more blowers to SVT owners than they would to the regular focus crowed. Not only is the SVT crowed more oriented towards performance they are also on average older and thus more wealthy than their regular focus counter parts. I for one would be very disappointed if they do not come out with a Kit for the SVT. I am serriously considering this kit as a future modification. It just does what no other supercharger currently available does. It is a complete kit that you can install in a day that does not require any additional tunning,or hardware(above what is supplied with the kit) and performes as good or better than anything currently available. It also above all gives me confidence that it would run as reliably as my stock svt and thus would make me more willing to sacrifice my remaining drivtain warranty.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

I think one thing that has to be taken into consideration is the target buyer for after market parts. Although the SVT focus has fewer numbers, I think the type of buyer who buys an SVT is more apt to buy after market performance modifications. The choice to buy the SVT version, was a choice made on the performance and quality. Although there are other blowers on the market, none of them show the attention to detail and the quality that the PowerWorks SC does. This products exudes quality and is a kit with out compromise that reflects the attributes that attracted most buyers to the SVT version of the focus. I think PowerWorks would sell more blowers to SVT owners than they would to the regular focus crowed. Not only is the SVT crowed more oriented towards performance they are also on average older and thus more wealthy than their regular focus counter parts. I for one would be very disappointed if they do not come out with a Kit for the SVT. I am serriously considering this kit as a future modification. It just does what no other supercharger currently available does. It is a complete kit that you can install in a day that does not require any additional tunning,or hardware(above what is supplied with the kit) and performes as good or better than anything currently available. It also above all gives me confidence that it would run as reliably as my stock svt and thus would make me more willing to sacrifice my remaining drivtain warranty.

Well put. I hope they go through with it, too.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

Very well put, I am 32 and currently looking into my choices for FI and Turbo as much as i would like it does not fit within the plans for my car. SC as it was said before i would love the Vortech because of the numbers, but do not like the install part. JRSC install is easily done but does not produce the numbers i would like if powerworks did come out with SVT kit this is the route i would go in the future.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

ProCharger has a pretty sweet kit for the SVT. Includes an air to air IC and the tune, all you need is the injectors for $3800 and it's install if far eaiser than the Vortec. The roots chargers are great, but with the SVT's 10+:1 comp ratio, its hard to cool the roots (plumbing wise) to stop the detonation.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

I think $4k - $5k for a mod on these cars is a little silly, imho. That is almost half of what the car is worth! Also, if you take that $5k and sell your svtf for $10-12k (more if you have an 04) you would have enough to buy a lightly used Mach 1 with 320 horses that will run high 12s to low 13s stock. I love the svtf but I am never going to put more than a few hundred dollars into it. Even with the added power, you would still get spanked by a new Mustang GT, Mach 1, SRT4, WRX, etc... All of those cars can be had for $16-$20k lightly used, which is what you would have if you sold your car and added $5k to it. It is not worth it imho.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

I think $4k - $5k for a mod on these cars is a little silly, imho. That is almost half of what the car is worth! Also, if you take that $5k and sell your svtf for $10-12k (more if you have an 04) you would have enough to buy a lightly used Mach 1 with 320 horses that will run high 12s to low 13s stock. I love the svtf but I am never going to put more than a few hundred dollars into it. Even with the added power, you would still get spanked by a new Mustang GT, Mach 1, SRT4, WRX, etc... All of those cars can be had for $16-$20k lightly used, which is what you would have if you sold your car and added $5k to it. It is not worth it imho.

I wish my car only cost 10K since that would be half of 4-5K.
The point of the SVTF is not to be a straight line shooter. IMHO the car is near perfect in handleing and balance, just a bit shy in the power department. 30-40 HP more and the car is perfect. Its not a drag car and never was meant to be. Minus the WRX, all the cars mentioned above are only really good at one thing, going fast straight. Move outside of that lane and the become lacking, which is where the SVTF picks up. Because of the nature of the SVTF engine, it will take 4-5K to get the 30-40 HP That I think it needs. A well spent addition to make a near perfect car perfect. Of course that is just my opinion, no facts just opinion.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

I think $4k - $5k for a mod on these cars is a little silly, imho. That is almost half of what the car is worth! Also, if you take that $5k and sell your svtf for $10-12k (more if you have an 04) you would have enough to buy a lightly used Mach 1 with 320 horses that will run high 12s to low 13s stock. I love the svtf but I am never going to put more than a few hundred dollars into it. Even with the added power, you would still get spanked by a new Mustang GT, Mach 1, SRT4, WRX, etc... All of those cars can be had for $16-$20k lightly used, which is what you would have if you sold your car and added $5k to it. It is not worth it imho.

It depends on the power you get. We already know that 290whp is possible on 91 octane gas/9psi of boost with the Vortech kit. I would guess low 300's is possible on 93 octane. That is considerably more then the new GT or old Mach 1 puts down stock. Then couple that with the fact those cars are easily 400-600lbs heavier then the SVTF, and I think you can see the SVTF would not be as “out classed” as it sounds. Yeah it’s FWD which hurts it, but I am betting with some driving skill the SVT would run close with the Mustangs at the drags, and then totally annihilate them at anything requiring a turn or braking, all for a total cost considerably less then the price of a new Mustang GT.

Don’t get me wrong, I love Mustangs, I was debating heavily to get a new Mustang instead of doing anything to my SVTF. But then I realized a few things, first was that Mustangs are a dime a dozen (even the new ones I am seeing more and more each day on the road and its only going to get worse), second if I were to buy a new Mustang I’d have to twiddle my thumbs for a while before I would feel ok about modifying it because of fear of warranty (first run model etc.., yeah some folks have issues with the SVTF but I have beat the crap out of mine for 13k miles and have no issues). Not to mention my insurance would double and I would probably loose an average of 5-10mpg which is more cost. I'd also have a harder time getting to work in the winter time when it snows, my SVTF did awesome.

And the last thing is, the rumor is that 2007 or so there might be a AWD focus (SVT fusion) with a 300hp turbo engine. With an expected weight of 3000lbs that will be a full 500lbs lighter then the Mustang GT with the same hp as the GT but will have AWD. Imagine a little bit of work to that car and how fast it could become (as long as the AWD is sturdy). Anyway my point is, if I got a Mustang now and that came out later on, I'd then be locked into the Mustang. If I stick to modifying my SVTF, I will probably have it paid off by then and have had some fun with it and would be able to make a switch then if I desired.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

...you would still get spanked by a new Mustang GT, Mach 1, SRT4, WRX, etc...

Only if you're not skilled enough to go fast AND turn.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

i'm actually a graduating as an engineering student this summer, and i alraedy have a placement at a consulting firm, so basically what i'm trying to say is.... i'm gonna treat myself to something really good, and this powerworks SC sounds very promising. as long as it's not to overly priced.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

...you would still get spanked by a new Mustang GT, Mach 1, SRT4, WRX, etc...

Only if you're not skilled enough to go fast AND turn.

Agreed, I beat all four of those cars on a regular basis at autocross.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

I wish my car only cost 10K since that would be half of 4-5K.

I wasn't talking about what you paid for the car, I was talking about what it is worth now. When you factor in what you paid for the car and add to that number $5-6k for the blower and supporting mods it is really outrageous considering you won't get any more for your modded car than I would get for my stocker. If you paid $18k for your car new in 2004 and added $5-6k to that number, you could have had a used 03 Cobra which can definately hold its own on any road course with the improved IRS and 360-380 rwhp stock. CAI and catback and they are at 400 to the wheels for around $500.

Because of the nature of the SVTF engine, it will take 4-5K to get the 30-40 HP That I think it needs.

If $100/1whp is a good investment in your opinion go for it. I don't know many people who would pay $500 for 5 horsepower though, just to put it in perspective.

We already know that 290whp is possible on 91 octane gas/9psi of boost with the Vortech kit. I would guess low 300's is possible on 93 octane. That is considerably more then the new GT or old Mach 1 puts down stock.

Have you ever seen a stock Mach 1 dyno? They put down around 280 stock with the paper filter and are right at 300 rwhp with just exhaust and pulleys (about $600). The new GT will put down 260 stock. I would not call that considerably less than 290 (which is not the norm with that kit either). If you factor in the weight difference, I would agree with you that a 290 whp svtf would be a handful on a road course but would still get outgunned in the straights and play catch up in the twisties. Then again, most people don't autox or road race, they go from light to light on the street. Plus, you are not putting any pressure on the engine internals with a stock Mach or GT like you are with a 9psi svtf. With a CR over 10:1, it is just a matter of time before the stock internals make the engine go boom, no matter how safe the tune. If you go with all forged internals on your svtf, the cost of the blower just went up around $1k or more if you need a shop to do it for you. Look at the 96-98 Cobras with blowers and stock internals to see how well a Ford DOHC with 10:1 CR fares when blown more than 6 psi...

I am not knocking the svtf at all, I love mine, I just don't see the point in dropping $5k into a car that depreciates faster than most others. The car is fun to drive the way it is. I would save the money and let it earn interest until I was at a place to use it with my trade for a down payment on something better that takes to mods better.

Modding it up like that also makes it much harder to sell unless you want to return the car to stock and lie to the buyer about it being blown at one point in time.

The bottom line is that it is your car, so you can do what you want with it. It really doesn't matter what other people like me think. If it makes you happy, go for it. By the same token, I am entitled to my opinion which I tried to explain above. We are all friends here and friends disagree from time to time. No biggie, I won't clutter up this thread anymore...

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

I wasn't talking about what you paid for the car, I was talking about what it is worth now. When you factor in what you paid for the car and add to that number $5-6k for the blower and supporting mods it is really outrageous considering you won't get any more for your modded car than I would get for my stocker. If you paid $18k for your car new in 2004 and added $5-6k to that number, you could have had a used 03 Cobra which can definately hold its own on any road course with the improved IRS and 360-380 rwhp stock. CAI and catback and they are at 400 to the wheels for around $500.

Point taken but the real world doesnt work that way. Just because my car may only be worth $12K doesnt mean I can sell it and call it even. Most people will be upside down on their cars for 2-3 years. You can work numbers all day long and say I could by this for that but in reality most people are better off buying new because of rebates, interest rates and length of term. Some people have the ability to put large amounts of money down on a car and walk away with tons of equity, for me and alot of other people we got what we could afford and now want to improve it. Cobra sounds great but not sure where you live but here in Savannah GA I have yet to see one on a used lot anywhere and only one new one. One last thing, a car is not an investment and never will be. If I sink 10K into my Focus I would be a fool to think I could sell it for 25K doesnt happen. If I was interested in resale I would buy a Honda.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

i'm actually a graduating as an engineering student this summer, and i alraedy have a placement at a consulting firm, so basically what i'm trying to say is.... i'm gonna treat myself to something really good, and this powerworks SC sounds very promising. as long as it's not to overly priced.

Congratulations!....I think you should do what you want.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

If $100/1whp is a good investment in your opinion go for it. I don't know many people who would pay $500 for 5 horsepower though, just to put it in perspective.

Your looking at a whole board full of them. The unfortunate fact is that the SVTF engine is a sophisticated, high strung motor. Not alot of hidden potential in it that say a 4.6L has. The only way to get any power is FI. FI costs, it is the nature of the beast. Now for my 4-5K I can make much more power than the 30-40 that im looking for I just dont want much more because the car needs to be my daily driver and work on pump gas.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

Quote:
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We already know that 290whp is possible on 91 octane gas/9psi of boost with the Vortech kit. I would guess low 300's is possible on 93 octane. That is considerably more then the new GT or old Mach 1 puts down stock.


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Have you ever seen a stock Mach 1 dyno? They put down around 280 stock with the paper filter and are right at 300 rwhp with just exhaust and pulleys (about $600). The new GT will put down 260 stock. I would not call that considerably less than 290 (which is not the norm with that kit either). If you factor in the weight difference, I would agree with you that a 290 whp svtf would be a handful on a road course but would still get outgunned in the straights and play catch up in the twisties. Then again, most people don't autox or road race, they go from light to light on the street. Plus, you are not putting any pressure on the engine internals with a stock Mach or GT like you are with a 9psi svtf. With a CR over 10:1, it is just a matter of time before the stock internals make the engine go boom, no matter how safe the tune. If you go with all forged internals on your svtf, the cost of the blower just went up around $1k or more if you need a shop to do it for you. Look at the 96-98 Cobras with blowers and stock internals to see how well a Ford DOHC with 10:1 CR fares when blown more than 6 psi...

I am not knocking the svtf at all, I love mine, I just don't see the point in dropping $5k into a car that depreciates faster than most others. The car is fun to drive the way it is. I would save the money and let it earn interest until I was at a place to use it with my trade for a down payment on something better that takes to mods better.

Modding it up like that also makes it much harder to sell unless you want to return the car to stock and lie to the buyer about it being blown at one point in time.

The bottom line is that it is your car, so you can do what you want with it. It really doesn't matter what other people like me think. If it makes you happy, go for it. By the same token, I am entitled to my opinion which I tried to explain above. We are all friends here and friends disagree from time to time. No biggie, I won't clutter up this thread anymore...

Yes I know a Mach 1 can put ~280whp down, but I was talking about a tuning up the SVTF for 93 octane, which would probably net low 300whp. 20hp is a notable difference IMHO. I have to disagree with you when you say the SVTF would still be outgunned. I give the nod to the stangs on launches, but from a roll I think the SVTF would still be ahead. 400lbs is like having another ~30-40hp deficit on top of the 20hp it's already down.

Boosting anything can be safe, and you'll probably get 80-90 percent of the same engine life if you keep the tune safe. So lets say the focus can only get to 100k miles (I think much much more but lets be conservative), so now your only going to get 80-90k miles before a rebuild...hmm..by then I would have probably wanted to rebuild it anyway to allow for more boost/power

What kills an engine is detonation, that is pretty much the sum of the situation. Running lean=hot=detonation, running too low of octane gas=detonation, running too much boost for your octane=detonation. Detonation events can cause forces on the engine internals up to and over %1000 higher then a normal compression stroke. Even minor detonation can cause %100 more pressure, and you can't always hear detonation, that is why people blow cars up they have boosted. They tune for the ragged edge of safety to try to get those peak numbers to brag about, and then end up detonating and bam the engine goes. I think 15psi is only like %20 more pressure on the internals in comparison. A J&S unit can help keep this from happening also (which is big part of why the Vortech kit has hit 290whp safely on 91 octane/9psi), which would be a standard mod I would put on a FI install.

Also, the amount of boost you can add to a car is dependent on a lot of things. For one, the head material, aluminum dissipates heat better then iron, therefore detonation is a little less likely with aluminum because heat allows for detonation. Another thing is the type/size and "cleanliness" of the combustion chamber. Some chambers are more conducive to boost then others, and a clean chamber is less likely to have burrs which can become hot spots (similar to a glow plug). And also cam timing plays a large role in the amount of boost; it can hold or let off pressure. If you think 9psi on 10.2:1 is a lot, talk to the Corvette guys with 11:1 compression and 7psi

You see, the focus does depreciate fast, and that's another reason to stick with it. You've already lost some money; trading or selling early will not help you with that. Might as well keep it for a while, and might as well be happy with it if your going to keep it right? 170hp is not enough for me to remain happy, but I love the other aspects of the car it just lacks power, so for me the obvious solution is to boost it.

And the SVTF does take to mods well, well it takes to FI really well. I think in Sport compact they said the SRT-4 has like 15-20psi of back pressure built into it, if you add 9psi of boost to the SVTF its backpressure is only like 4psi, which they said is comparable to a free flowing NA engine. What else can you really do to an SVTF to boost hp by so much for $5k? Even the all out higher RPM NA combo's are only making 220ish whp, and they would be far less driveable. Sure I could a UDP, intake, high-flow cat, cam gears, and tune....but that's like over $1k for ~15whp before shipping costs, compared to 120+whp for ~$5k (powerworks estimate).

It doesn't matter to me if we disagree; I just wanted to make sure you saw both sides of the situation. You still have to look at the other factors outside of performance also, like insurance rates, gas mileage (if its going to be a DD), and ability to get around when the weather goes bad (not saying a Mustang can’t, I drove a fox body through a blizzard once with the right tires and it did ok, but I had to have those tires.) So for me, the SVTF is a good little car, but with boost it would be a very fun car to drive day to day. In fact I will probably try to keep the SVTF around even if I were to go with a Mustang or some other car in the future!

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

I'm getting very close to a viable SVT design solution with the base Zetec powerworks kit. After spending fair amount of time driving the base kit, I feel this thing has to be in an SVT ... the performance will be well worth the wait.

I hope to get my 'development' car on the road by April-May assuming things progress as they have been.

What is really needed is the consumer interest to make this a go program ... there has to be a business case for it. If you haven't already, e-mail powerworks and show your support - if you have, please do it again!

Spread the word with other SVT owners and on any other forums - if they are interested, have them e-mail powerworks too.

I have other driveline aspirations for my 'development' car as well ... I can't divulge any info just yet, but stay tuned.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

I would be interested. Looks like if this kit came out, it would be right in my window for an SC.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

While im interested, theres a lot of things to iron out before id be serious about upgrading. Issue #1 being the dyno of the ZX3 kit. 221hp and 184trq is impressive, but thats at 12psi.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

While im interested, theres a lot of things to iron out before id be serious about upgrading. Issue #1 being the dyno of the ZX3 kit. 221hp and 184trq is impressive, but thats at 12psi.

It's 12psi but it is also with 91 octane, and unless I am interpreting what has been said incorrectly, there is more left in the tune to be found (those dyno results were the base tune from powerworks, no custom tuning). What I really like about that dyno, is the torque is very flat. You have more power from 2300RPM-redline, no waiting for boost and no real drop off at the top. Remember it's average power that counts, not peak, for determining how fast a car accelerates.

 

Re: PowerWorks SVT supercharger

I guess what I was trying to say is, Id need to see what an SVT's graph looked like before id spend the money. Ive already got a JRSC, I love the linear power, but it would have to be something significant for me to seriously look into it. I guess I just dont like the idea of running 12psi, however safe it may be.