in before "I'll believe it when I see it"

 

Interesting. Lots of opportunity for weight reduction.

 

Not interested in anything that implements electric motors
/ Hybrid.

Nope I likes to turn my wrenches and that's a entire new skill set that I do not wish to explore.

 

I have not even heard about a Focus RS yet.

 

I think it would be great provided it's well executed. Porsche is using a similar system in their GT3R hybrid with great success.

 

what are the thoughts on a hybrid electric motor??

Electric motors make lots of torque, no?

 

I think it is cool, if the hybrid can provide the same performance as mechanical awd while getting better mileage then why not! I think awd drive adds about 200 lbs to an Audi A3, which is a similar size car as the new focus, I hope that Ford can do a good lithiun ion battery and motor set up for less than that...

 

I think it is a terrible idea. It would greatly increase cost and weight. Just give us the RS we have desired for so long.

 

I'll just take the front bumper cover.

 

This could be super sick. Porsche is using electric technologies in it's GT3 race car so I don't see why that wouldn't trickle down to normal cars as well. I'd be down to have 100% torque available instantaneously.

 

and limited/no shifting involved

 

The truth is that many premier motorsports manufacturers and organizations are looking to be more green, and Porsche has shown with their GT3 hybrid and their 918 Spyder concept that hybrid doesn't correlate with slow. Assuming that Ford and M-Sport will use a hybrid drivetrain in the WRC in the near future, that pretty much seals the fate of the next gen RS as a hybrid.

Personally, I'd rather have an AWD hybrid RS than a FWD gasoline one, but I'd definitely prefer the traditional gasoline AWD setup. If Ford does go with hybrid, I don't see it as a big compromise.

 

I'm just not interesting in anything that combines two forms of motivation.

...either make it all gas, or all electric. Anything else is just needlessly complicated and less practical than a single application.

My only hope is that all the people that buy into the flawed technology will help push the development of decent battery technology, which is something we severely lack.

That, and I fear the driving dynamics of this RS hybrid would be abysmal based on the description of it. If you're going to deliver power to more than one axle, the ratio of torque to each one needs to be consistent at all times, and that would be near impossible with a turbocharged gas motor at one end and electric motors at the other.

 

Ferrari has a hybrid as well but everyone seems to forget that.

 

Painting their cars green for the Geneva Auto Show doesn't really count as hybrid... when Maranello has a working prototype of their hybrid versions, then we're talking. It's just a matter of time but they're nowhere near where Porsche is right now.

 

This is an interesting concept and I could see uses in possibly some vehicles like SUV/CUVs that could benefit from a part-time four-wheel drive capability and enhanced economy but I'm not so sure about a performance Focus. Even with using lighter Li-Ion battery packs it's still going to add a lot of weight and cost to the car. And the Focus is a near entry level type vehicle and not a high-end sports cars.

Weight is the enemy of great handling and driving dynamics, and adding a ton of weight, complexity, and cost to this segment doesn't make sense... yet. As technology develops and becomes cheaper maybe we'll see it down the road but I don't think we're there yet. If Ford wanted to do an AWD Focus I'd much rather have a conventional system like the generation 4 Haldex that can actively bias torque between the rear wheels, but with the move to their own in-house AWD I don't think they even have the capability to do a performance-based AWD system in a compact car at the moment.

 

Interesting concept...
Reminds me of an article I read about Kawasaki filing patents on a new engine configuration...
Basical it's a 'Big-Bang' inline 4, with 3 cylinders firing within 180 degrees of each other, and the 4th firing 540 degrees later (for exiting traction).
But with such a large 'space' between firings, they're going to employ a high-output electric motor (and no starter motor) which will kick-in on the long pause (only at idle)...else the engine would just stall.
The electric motor will also be used at WOT for short bursts...

Of course to qualify for racing, it has to be based off a production bike
It's going to dominate!
(sorry, was that a bit off topic??)
lol

 

Mercedes and Ferrari were using KURS in F1. Actually Toyota is the first that I can thnk of recently with the 1st Gen Prius as race cars and TRD electric motor upgrades from Toyota.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/car/04q2/toyota_prius_race_car-car_news

 

Didn't all the cars with KURS never win a race? I don't follow F1 very much, but that's what I thought I'd heard. I wouldn't mind seeing an electric motor in the back of a focus to give an AWD, but I would sure hope they'd test it relentlessly to make sure it was smooth.

 

Didn't all the cars with KURS win all the races?

 

If they can do it correctly it's going to require an insane amount of R&D...

 

let's start another rumor

 

Here's another rumor I heard:

Ford to buy Toyota in super-secret-under-the-table deal. 2013 Supra to be built in Dearborn. All Tundra's to get ecoboost, Mustang to get a newer version of 2JZ motor along with the Supra.







and there will be no Focus after 2014

 

Bahahaha

Scion is to be included in the Ford/Toyota deal. Starting in 2013, the Xb will be sold in Europe in higher quality and performance models for several years with ST and RS badging. Models will continue to improve but the U.S. will never see them. Rumors of upgraded models reaching stateside will run rampant but never come to fruition.

:lol:

 

They did poorly in the beginning, due to the extra weight added to the car (40-50 lbs) that had to be accounted for. They couldn't balance the cars as well because of that, making them harder to drive and slower in general on the course. I don't know how they did later in the 2009 season, when it came out, but I saw that no one used KERS in 2010. This is where I read most of what I just said: http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/5/10723.html

 

^ Thanks, that was a good read. :thumbup:

I cant find the link but, on Facebook/fordfocus, they had a link to the article. I was going to read what they said about the article but, they must have deleted that post. Interesting...

 

I heard US is supposed to get an RS Fiesta before Europe by 2013 and it's going to have 350HP and AWD....:what:



Well I can pretend anyway.

 

LOL sorry only a Fiesta ST for everyone but the US market.

 

this rumor has been brought up by myself atleast... well... just search for the 2012 focus anouncement forum...


and it's a pretty good rumor at that too... meaning... Ford and Peugeot illegedly Co-developed the technology years ago... I think this rumor was dredged up by those crazy followers of Fords patten filings... so... while it may never see light.... this has made it past the point of Concept...

and as far as my soap box segment... I would rather own this hybrid setup anyday over any purely mechanical AWD setup...

biggest reasons not to go with a traditional AWD:
Moment of enertia...
More mass...
More Rotating mass...
less MPG...
AWD doesn't mean PFM...

FWD traction wouldn't be an issue with the illeged hybrid setup... 70-100 instantanious horsepower to the rear wheels would trump any argument about performance....

they don't make production cars(exotics excluded) with the potential that this thing has as far as the powertrain/drivetrain are concerned

unless you can afford a WRC car or something close.... I think this thing would do wonders... It will definitely give FWD cars an edge over RWD cars(not talking quatermiles or funnycars)...

basically it gives you all of the benifits of AWD (Hybrids, and FWD), but none of the cons.... except for a little more weight than FWD, but nothing to the extent of a traditional AWD setup... and odds also are that it'll will be more sensitive to various road conditions than even some of the best AWD setups available to consumers...

and just from reading some of the posts... I have to say this... while nothing is perfect... I believe that electric motors are very very reliable, and as always batteries can be replaced... I don't know if they still do this.... but if its a hybrid... the battery would be covered under emissions equipment warrenty...

and if all else fails... resale...

 

basically it gives you all of the benifits of AWD (Hybrids, and FWD), but none of the cons.... except for a little more weight than FWD, but nothing to the extent of a traditional AWD setup... and odds also are that it'll will be more sensitive to various road conditions than even some of the best AWD setups available to consumers...

I'd imagine that would be backwards in that the hybrid would be heavier than a modern all-wheel drive setup. On the current Euro market Focus C1 platform, the Haldex AWD system in the Volvo S40 only adds 143 pounds to the car. That's pretty similar to most AWD systems on compact and mid-size cars that usually add somewhere in the range of one to two hundred pound.

Compare this to the weight of a hybrid such as the Fusion that is also available in front and AWD configuration. The hybrid is over a hundred pounds heavier than the V6 with AWD. Let’s say you could buy this hybrid Focus with a regular gasoline powertrain up front and electrical motor out back. Unless in-wheel motor designs ever become production ready and cost effective (still years off) you've probably just added even more weight for the rear drive module/axles compared to a hybrid where the electrical propulsion is integrated into the main powertrain like current hybrid models. The electronics, wiring, battery pack and so on all add up.

When you look at cost, weight penalties with current technology, and potential performance compared to a convention front or all-wheel drive setup it doesn’t seem viable.