[trakkstar]

Starting to build a custom turbo that I can gradually build up. Final WHP goal is around 200. Nothing too crazy. For my initial setup however i was thinking of running a T3 with no intercooler at a very low boost and start from there. What level of boost is safe without any tuning on the stock ECU? Or is there no such thing? If there isn't how safe would it be to go with a FocusSport chip that I'd have to have tuned "over the phone".

Just getting started here so any help is appreciated.

_michael

 

[belacyrf]

0 Boost is safe with no tuning. I would hope that nobody would tell you different and be willing to sacrifice your car.
Go over 0 PSI and your taking your chances.

 

[trakkstar]

That's what I figured. Okay a little more clarification: With SCT chip as tuning what boost level can I safely run before I have to invest in the whole MAF, injectors and all that. Like I mentioned in my previous email I have bery modest power goals of only around 150 whp to start and eventually around 200 whp.

_michael

 

[belacyrf]

Ok well that's a more feasible question.. but your not going to like the answer. hehe

I'm assuming you have a zx3 zetec 2.0. And with that you're running 18lb injectors. Which gives you the ability to see about 140-150 hp at the wheels before you start running out of injectors.

You're MAF I would bet is good to probably 170-180whp or so but I couldn't say exactly. But if your going to get an SCT chip (roughly 300.00), just save another 200.00 and you can pick up a used MAF (maybe the SVT Maf) and some 30lb injectors and your good to about 200whp or so.

 

[Tekin112]

on stock injectors and maf, using the Black box i put down 175/155.

 

[belacyrf]

What you are doing vs what you "should" do could be very different. Just because you're successfully pushing it now, doesn't mean you can forever.

Ask anyone what 18lb injectors are truly good for power wise!

 

[ZX3Crazy]

That's what I figured. Okay a little more clarification: With SCT chip as tuning what boost level can I safely run before I have to invest in the whole MAF, injectors and all that. Like I mentioned in my previous email I have bery modest power goals of only around 150 whp to start and eventually around 200 whp.

_michael

Dude! You will never achieve 200whp with stock injectors and MAF!! You must have 42lbs injectors and a 70mm MAF calibrated to those injectors. Yes, the SCT chip is good, but you should save money for the Pro Racer Package.

 

[trakkstar]

Okay this is shaping up. Sounds like my initial goal of 150 is achievable with only tuning. Once I cross that boundary I'll need to upgrade my MAF and injectors and possibly my tuning solution.

Thanks for the help guys. This helps my get my price list set.

_michael

 

[EastCoastFoci]

"Dude! You will never achieve 200whp with stock injectors and MAF!!"

That statment is only half true. Last time (11.8lbs) at the dyno (dynojet) i put down 273whp using a stock maf (before the turbo in a 3 inch tube). The only other person besides my self using a stock maf is welding rod. upgrading your maf is not nessasary . And i specificly remember randy at focus sport asking me when he tuned my chip if i was using the stock maf. U can, and its safe. But like someone said before getting a svt maf(for cheap) probably can't hurt.

 

[1turbofocus]

Trying to make 200HP on the stock MAF is just dumb and like lighting a fuse to your engine the only thing is how long is the fuse , If you have moved past the 5 volt cut and have gone to VE is just BAD TUNING nothing more

Rod has changed his MAF to blow through and this changes how the MAF electronics responds and gives the STOCK ELECTRONICS more room

To tell some one to use the stock mass air is just bad advise and bad tuning that will result in a blown engine

Change to a larger mass air with more room and enjoy your turbo Focus

Tom

 

[CharlesWA]

Rod has changed his MAF to blow through and this changes how the MAF electronics responds and gives the STOCK ELECTRONICS more room

That's not quite the way I remember it... I thought WR tried a blow through configuration and it didn't work so great so he moved it back to pre-turbo but put it in a bigger tube and adjusted the transfer function accordingly. Something to the effect of 50% more cross section in the tube means 50% more air at a given voltage, thus 50% more rage out of the OEM meter...

 

[EastCoastFoci]

That's not quite the way I remember it... I thought WR tried a blow through configuration and it didn't work so great so he moved it back to pre-turbo but put it in a bigger tube and adjusted the transfer function accordingly. Something to the effect of 50% more cross section in the tube means 50% more air at a given voltage, thus 50% more rage out of the OEM meter...

EXACTLY! Like i said i have a 3inch tube with my maf bolted to that. I have a nifty little thing called mafterburner and it lets me monitor everything including my maf voltage. never once have i seen it hit 5 volts (i think 4.5 was the highest). IT WORKS, IT WORKS, IT WORKS. Tom respect u greatly, but please be open minded to something that works.

 

[darkpuppet]

If you're going aftermarket MAF, make sure you have Datalogging facilities!!!!!

you'll need to log MAF voltages, RPM, a/f (or shorterm trims for partial throttle/idle)... if you can't log those, an aftermarket MAF will only cause you grief.

A stock ford MAF of larger capacity (mustang GT MAF), is a sure fire tuner's delight when it comes to getting a mail-order tune.

 

[Overblown]

Why can you not just run larger injectors with a calibrated meter? Say 36 or 42 pound.. What ever you choose?

 

[trakkstar]

Awesome information everyone. For one last clarification, what would be the approximate boost level where I would want to start using an aftermarket MAF? I just want to make sure that my intial stepping stone of 150whp with the stock MAF won't get me into trouble.

BTW, I haven't heard an answer on if it was safe to use a "mail order" tuned chip as my initial solution. Thanks again.

_michael

 

[1turbofocus]

I will agree that installing the "Stock MAF Electronics "into larger piping will change the room needed to run more boost safely and yes you are correct that is what Rod did

But to say that using the stock MAF will be fine is not a true statement and could and will be taken wrong and not everyone has the ability to make the changes needed to make this work correctly

Tom

 

[JeffN]

Just run the stock maf with a voltmeter on a dyno. If you hit 5V, get a new meter. I think there is some variability in these maters.. some have reported hitting 200whp with the stock maf, others have problems far below that.

 

[belacyrf]

Nobody that I have seen claiming to have hit 200whp with a stock maf (in the stock tube without modifying the maf transfer function), has provided their maf counts or their maf voltage to prove they are hitting that power without pegging the meter. Just because you peg the meter doesn't mean your car automatically stops running. The car then runs no the VE tables in the ECU, but you get one nice chunck of cool air and those VE tables are going to be wrong, you'll go lean and well you know what that means.

 

[Tekin112]

What you are doing vs what you "should" do could be very different. Just because you're successfully pushing it now, doesn't mean you can forever.

Ask anyone what 18lb injectors are truly good for power wise!

did it fro 6 months with no issues and a very very rich a/f of 10.8. Now i have the 24's in and im im over 200 and there working fine. so this mith that 42's are need for everyhting is false. and the stock maf has worked and still working.

 

[my02focus]

So all of you guys on here saying he should stick with a stock maf why dont you put up the money to buy him a new shortblock when he fries his engine. It's way cheaper to buy the injectors, the maf and a chip then to replace the short block. I know some of you have the knowledge to mod the stock maf (mafterburner, larger pipe, etc.) but don't assume that everybody else does. I just priced injector, maf and chip, $710. Compared to buying and installing a new shortblock thats pretty cheap. Listen to Tom, do it right the first time.