focaljet-1
Subaru ditching use of aluminum body panels
Where'd you get that number from? From what I've read, the cost savings in substituting steel for aluminum panels is around $600 for a midsize vehicle. People buy $600 sunroofs, but they can't afford something that will improve the acceleration, braking, handling, and fuel economy of the car?
Guess it depends on your priorities. :dunno: And this porky defense coming from Thameth of all peeps? For shame!
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They contracted that out, but GM is actually an industry leader in hydro and "quick plastic" forming, which work well with aluminum that can be harder to stamp. They have started using it on hoods and hatches already. All I know, is that when my dad jacked up his old steel Impala hood, a sweet looking well made fiberglass one was actually CHEAPER, and OMFG did that save so much weight!
Guess it depends on your priorities. :dunno: And this porky defense coming from Thameth of all peeps? For shame!
They contracted that out, but GM is actually an industry leader in hydro and "quick plastic" forming, which work well with aluminum that can be harder to stamp.
They have started using it on hoods and hatches already. All I know, is that when my dad jacked up his old steel Impala hood, a sweet looking well made fiberglass one was actually CHEAPER, and OMFG did that save so much weight! No doubt, but its not like steel prices haven't gone up either... apples to apples:
http://www.cruspi.com/
As long as the demand for metals keeps increasing, so too will the price. What I think happened here is straight forward, its obviously not that aluminum got more expensive while steel did not, but that aluminum has and probably always will cost more than steel. Manufacturers will delete tiny 5cent lightbulbs if they think it won't affect sales, and this is several hundred dollars a vehicle... and I think they are right that people won't care/notice.
http://www.cruspi.com/
As long as the demand for metals keeps increasing, so too will the price. What I think happened here is straight forward, its obviously not that aluminum got more expensive while steel did not, but that aluminum has and probably always will cost more than steel. Manufacturers will delete tiny 5cent lightbulbs if they think it won't affect sales, and this is several hundred dollars a vehicle... and I think they are right that people won't care/notice.
^ There are others that just use some panels, like hatches are often made out of aluminum since they have to fight gravity being lifted up.
Panels alone don't need to be substituted to make for major weight savings, as the frames themselves can be made in aluminum... just like Thameth's most favoritest car of all timez EVARRR....
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BEHOLD! An aluminum bathtub... ok JK, its an Elise chassis!
Panels alone don't need to be substituted to make for major weight savings, as the frames themselves can be made in aluminum... just like Thameth's most favoritest car of all timez EVARRR....
BEHOLD! An aluminum bathtub... ok JK, its an Elise chassis!
Obviously, you're not a Paintless Dent Repair tech.....cuz I am....and to me...it's GREAT!!! news.FocuZ_Freek_XxX said:
Subies are such a pain to work on.....
dave.
I never said it was a good idea, just understanding why they're doing it. I'm all for trying to keep cars as lightweight as possible. And yes stupid companies will rather look at saving .50 cents on one part per vehicle because when an accountant tells the higher ups that it'll save them $200k per year on the model line the Exec gah gah's over himself.....Ducman69 said:
Audi and Jaguar are two of the most extensive users of aluminum in their cars. And of course Lotus, as mentioned.
Also, just wanted to clarify that Subaru is stopping the use of aluminum in their body panels... not other areas of the car. And, even then, we are only talking about the hoods of the Impreza and the hood and hatch of the Forrester IIRC. Not ALL the body panels on Subarus are aluminum.
It's not a huge, deal-breaker kind of change. But, I would rather see companies using MORE aluminum (and other lighter materials) rather than LESS.
Every vehicle is built to a budget, which means that compromises will be made. It depends on certain factors as to what gets cut or downgraded.
For example that last Nissan Altima (third gen.) was given a certain target cost to build figure. They decided to put more into performance and vehicle dynamics and so they had to make cuts to the quality of interior materials. That is why the interiors were not that great.
The car has sold pretty well, so for the fourth gen. they've been given a bigger budget to build. You will notice that the new Altima's interior is a big step up in terms of quality of materials.
Also, just wanted to clarify that Subaru is stopping the use of aluminum in their body panels... not other areas of the car. And, even then, we are only talking about the hoods of the Impreza and the hood and hatch of the Forrester IIRC. Not ALL the body panels on Subarus are aluminum.
It's not a huge, deal-breaker kind of change. But, I would rather see companies using MORE aluminum (and other lighter materials) rather than LESS.
Every vehicle is built to a budget, which means that compromises will be made. It depends on certain factors as to what gets cut or downgraded.
For example that last Nissan Altima (third gen.) was given a certain target cost to build figure. They decided to put more into performance and vehicle dynamics and so they had to make cuts to the quality of interior materials. That is why the interiors were not that great.
The car has sold pretty well, so for the fourth gen. they've been given a bigger budget to build. You will notice that the new Altima's interior is a big step up in terms of quality of materials.
Heres the deal...drod01 said:
You are Not Buying ANY Car at Cost.
Period. End of story. That means there is profit margin factored into the price of the vehicle. That profit varies by brand and model every time. This is FACT. It may very well be that Subaru is discontinuing the use of aluminum body panels, but not passing that savings on to you. The excuse is obviously bull, as steel is twice as expensive as it was too, so yeah, this is likely a money-making strategy change. If the same amount of people buy the cars, then it was a wise decision and whoever thought it up can pat himself on the back for saving millions of dollars. If people that would have bought the cars change their mind and go for a competitor, then they'll have to rush back to the drawing board.
Several times in Corvette history, there were people in GM top brass that pushed for installing a simple solid axle rear suspension, citing that most customers wouldn't notice the difference and it'd save millions considering the thousands sold. This is one of those scenarios right here, so I can't see why anyone would give Subaru props for it or accept the BS excuse when the price of steel has gone up just the same.
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