I am using it now. I didn't worry about "fully" flushing the system. I just did a normal brake bleed. And I don't see a problem. I dont think your going to have to huge of an issue with mixing it. But I could be wrong.

 

I just did the turkey baster thing to suck out the extra stuff in the reservior. How much more of flush can you do?

Though I'm not sure how much it helps, I've always read you should bleed the rear's first. I guess it keeps the mixing to a minimum. And remember the clutch also shares the same fluid supply so you probably will want to bleed that point as well.

 

The reason behind bleeding the rear brakes first is because they are the longest brake lines. So they get the greatest volume of old fluid out of the reservior. If using the turkey baster to empty the reservior first and then adding new fluid the bleeding order doesn't really matter.

DOT 3 and DOT 4 fluids are compatable. They just have different wet and dry boiling points. You won't get the full benifit of the DOT 4 fluid unless you get rid of all the DOT 3 in the lines though.

 

whats the difference in performance? I don't think my tires can handle my brake calipers applying any more pressure

 

Brake fluid is hygroscopic, meaning it attracts moisture, I think. This moisture (in the form of water) causes in some cases the internal components of the braking system to rust, albeit slowly. The other consideration is that when the Dot 3 or 4 fluid has a ton of water in it, the fluid isn't as efficient and also has its boinling point lowered signifigantly. That's not a good thing.

The best way to bleed the brakes on this sort of a car is with a unit called a matrix SP? brake bleeder. It looks like a pesticide sprayer, has a guage for pressure, and attaches to the cap on the brake fluid resevoir. Use a siphon to remove the old fluid in the reservoir, top this off. You put new brake fluid in the unit, attatch the hose to the resevoir, pump it up, then proceeed to bleed all the old fluid out of the brake system. Works slick as all you have to to is turn the bleed screw at the calipers. (You can also flush the hydraulic clutch this way.)

 

What are the specs of the fluid (wet and dry boiling points)? What's the cost per pint?

 

Check out Valvoline SynPower or ATE fluid.

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=51

 

Check out Valvoline SynPower or ATE fluid.

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=51

 

What are pros, cons of switching to dot4 brake fluid?

 

ATE Super Blue

http://www.cadco.com/750iL/ate.htm

 

Originally posted by Spike Engineering:
What are the specs of the fluid (wet and dry boiling points)? What's the cost per pint?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe the Ford HD stuff is rated at 550* dry, and the newer Valvoline Synpower stuff is like 520* or so. I believe both are about the same price, ~$4 per 32 oz's.

When I bled my brakes I used just about 20 oz's for all 4 corners, not including the clutch (forgot it).

I bought one of these from FocusSport for about $50. Definitely well worth it for me.

 

Originally posted by andrew d b:
whats the difference in performance? I don't think my tires can handle my brake calipers applying any more pressure

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Changing brake fluid will not increase clamping pressure or anything like that. The reason for changing to a higher quality brake fluid is only really noticeable if you really are pushing your braking system to the limits, like at a road course or something. Of course also it should be done as general maintenance every so often but its not a huge deal.

What happens is when your brakes heat up, the heat gets transfered through the caliper pistons and into the brake fluid. Depending on what you current brake fluid's boiling point is, eventually the fluid will boil and produce little air bubbles. These air bubbles, since air is compressable, act as little shock absorbers (sort of) so that when you press the brake pedal, it feels mushy.

In general, the higher the dry boiling point, the "better".

After two track days, my brake pedal could almost reach the floor board.

Bleeding the brakes takes about 15 minutes to do and immediately fixes the problem.

So, the point is, until you do track events or several autoX's, its probably not worth messing with.

[ 04-10-2003, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: SlickShoes ]

 

Chris have you had to swap pads yet?

 

Not yet, but I plan to early next week. My fronts are just about shot, the rear's are perfectly fine. I need to bed them a little before using them on the track next Friday. First I need to figure out what I'm doing though...

I'm considering getting this tool, since it looks like it could come in pretty handy for frequent pad changes. Its just a little pricey at $40 for basically a c-clamp-like tool.

 

Originally posted by SlickShoes:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spike Engineering:
What are the specs of the fluid (wet and dry boiling points)? What's the cost per pint?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe the Ford HD stuff is rated at 550* dry...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Correct, but unless Ford has changed names on the HD fluid and changed it to a DOT 4 fluid, this is a new fluid. If it is, what are the specs?

See this link for another list.

See this link for registered brandnames.

So, is this fluid the same as the Ford HD fluid or not?

 

I believe that even though it exceeds the DOT4 standard, its still just labeled as DOT3 fluid. At the dealership by my house, they almost have a shine built to it in the parts department, and it just said DOT3 on the bottle. I believe its also been called "blue can", but its no longer in a blue container from what I saw.

[ 04-11-2003, 01:09 AM: Message edited by: SlickShoes ]

 

I was interested in finding out what was the difference so I went down to the Ford dealer and checked on the fluids.

Ford HD DOT 3 fluid
Cost: is $4.25/12 oz or $0.35 per oz
Minimum Dry boiling point: 550 deg F (exceeds DOT 3 spec of 401 deg F)
Minimum Wet boiling point: 284 deg F (meets DOT 3 spec)

Ford Super DOT 4 fluid
Cost: is $12.37/16 oz or $0.77 per oz
Minimum Dry boiling point: N/A
Minimum Wet boiling point: 356 deg F (exceeds DOT 4 spec of 331 deg F)

Also, the Super DOT 4 fluid is specified by the factory for use in the Focus. Although it just a guess, I suspect that the only reason is because of the wet boiling point but nothing more. Since the minimum dry boiling point isn't on the label, I wouldn't be surprised if it's not much higher than the minimum required by the DOT 4 spec (446 deg F).

[ 04-11-2003, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: Spike Engineering ]