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C170 vs. C1 Sedan Comparision

8.5K views 128 replies 40 participants last post by  COSitsWORTHit  
#1 ·
Question 1: So is it really ALL about style?

Let's compare apples to apples (i.e. Sedans), the '08 C170 vs. the '07 C1 (European).
In other words let's leave the ST out of this particular discussion because as of now there is no '08 U.S. performance version.

Granted, the C1 is better looking (subjective) and has a higher quality interior. But, it is more expensive (if it were imported here), heavier, and by most reviews I've read, doesn't handle as well.


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Question 2:
Are you willing to pay for a "better looking" car that is more expensive, heavier, and probably doesn't handle as well?


Question 3:
Given the above photos, are the cars really "that" different?
Please note that the C1 has a more aggressive wheel/tire package.



This thread is not flame-bait, or tongue in cheek. There are no RIGHT or WRONG answers, only opinions, but it presents serious questions and I hope it gets serious and thoughtful answers.


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#3 ·
I have the least problem with the side view, its those ugly contouresque headlights and un incorporated rear bumper that I have issues with.

why not make the lighter better handling car attractive? make it match the rest of the line up. :dunno:

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#4 ·
Style is key, especially when the import manufacturers tend to do a more drastic redesign every 4 model years. People have taken the idea that a drastic redesign means significant improvements from the previous model. In many instances, it is true because there are more features and touted improvements like structural rigidity, fuel economy and performance. With the Focus, it was already a drastic design when it came out in 1999/2000. The 2005 "redesign" wasn't much to move anyone into thinking it was an overall improvement. Considering the baggage of recall news in the 2000 and 2001 model years, not having such a notion of overall improvement really takes a hit in public perception despite consumer advocacy groups and owners lauding its reliability.

Handling is just one aspect of vehicle dynamics. I don't think that's really a huge marketing strength to the general public who just care about gas guzzling and making sure it can get from A to B. Also, tastes changes as we get older. I know I love my Focus, but there are days where I want something larger or wouldn't mind being in a nice tourer or cruiser. Plus, there's a bit more in the bank account. As long as there's money to pay for a car, I'll look at all the things a car, truck or SUV can offer.

The two may look similar in some angles, but the perception has already been put out there by folks here and the media that the cars are totally different.
 
#5 ·
Style is definitely a major selling point for me. I don't want to drive an ugly car, even if it was pretty fast. Obviously, style is subjective and what I think is ugly, others may see as good lucking and vice versa. I think that the 08 Focus is, as a whole, a good looking car. However, there are a few areas that I would have tweaked on it; primarily the tail lights would look better with the C1 version (something mor reminicent of the previous Focus). My only other beef with the side profile of the C170 is that I wish the flares over the wheel arches were a bit more pronounced, as they are on the C1. Instead of just kinda rolling out, they would have a sharp crease that defines them and makes them look bigger, as the C1 does.

Question 2: I think that's what old people do. They're willing to sacrifice handling and weight for comfort and perceived safety. So no, I'm not willing to pay more for a car that drives closer to a boat. However, I would be willing to pay more (a marginal premium to help compensate for lower market demand) for a lighter, more powerful, better handling car with fewer options like radios and SYNC. I've said it in other threads, but I want a driving experience, not a riding experience. Even though I have a half hour commute each way, I seldom do anything in my car other than drive it. I spend less than a minute on the phone every afternoon calling my wife and occasionally, I'll listen to music. I just want a driver's car!!!

I'm hesitant to say that I want a C1 Focus because I'm sure that the advances in technology/design are not worth the extra money it would cost to buy over a C170 chassis. I would be happy with a continually tweaked C170 chassis if the bodywork was a bit more like the previous Focus.

Question 3: I think they are surprisingly different. The C170 has lost a lot of the Focus DNA. The C1 has a more mature, design to it, while maintaining a direct connection to its past. It seems like it has some substance behind it and might be a bit more imposing when driven. The C170 skin is completely different from previous Focus skins and seems a bit more flash in the pan. Its almost like Ford's designers were jumping ship to create a car that looked more like a Corolla, so that people would buy into it having Toyota's reliability. It just doesn't have that thing that sets it apart as a Focus, which I think is what Ford was going for.

I think that the making of a heritage model requires maintaining some artifact of the original car. The C1 does this very well. If an IJAC were to see the sideview of it, and be asked what it was, they would most likely know it was a Focus. Ford has also done this with the Mustang, pretty much every Mustang has a defining feature that you can tell its a Mustang (except in the late 80s, early 90s, but those you just know). Volkswagen has also done this with pretty much all of their cars. A Golf/Rabbit from any era can't really be confused. The current C170 pretty much only has the side window shape going for it...
 
#6 · (Edited)
They share the same glass profile and general shape but the C170 model loses it in the details, the square foglamps do not fit, nor does the giant cheezy looking fender ornament. In all honesty I like the bodyline on the side of the C170, but that fender thing cuts it off. Despite having almost identical outlines, the C1 looks longer, sleeker and more aggressive. The C170 on the other hand looks tall and frankly looks like a cheaper car.

Also they axed the fender flaring the C1 has that ties it into past Foci. That really doesn't help the car from the side at all, and from any other angle makes it resemble a much cheaper car.

Put up head on shots and rear end shots and it's a whole other story. While the C1 has an understated European look, the C170 looks almost as strange as the Chevy Malibu. Nothing flows at all and alot of the car just plain looks cheap. Going into the interior, you have a brand new colorful plastic dash whereas the C1 has a very sleek interior that once again draws something from past Foci with it's oval vents. You can tell the C1 is a Focus, the C170 may as well not even have a Ford logo on it.

So, yes from those tiny pictures they do look similar, but from any other angle the C1 looks much better and more high quality by a large margin. Granted it costs more, but it could have been emulated with the same materials they used anyways and it would have looked better in the end.

Here's another test, which looks better? A quarter or a dime? They look similar but which would you rather have? I think the big problem is that most north americans expect a quarter (C1) but only want to pay for the dime (Hyundai Accent), so we get some wierd 17 cent coin (which would be this C170 trying to be a C1)
 
#7 ·
I think the biggest problem we have here is that people already know what the C1 is and have been lusting for it, where as the new C170 is brand new and would never ever be able to live up to peoples expectations because of what they been wanting since 2005 or so in the C1. The newer US Focus will never get a fair shake because of this, with most people on this board.

Anyways, my thinking is this: The 08 Focus is worlds better then 05 Focus is, and thats all what matters, since the C1 Focus is non-factor because you can't even buy it here.
 
#8 · (Edited)
focaljet-1 said:
Question 1: So is it really ALL about style?

Let's compare apples to apples (i.e. Sedans), the '08 C170 vs. the '07 C1 (European).
In other words let's leave the ST out of this particular discussion because as of now there is no '08 U.S. performance version.

Granted, the C1 is better looking (subjective) and has a higher quality interior. But, it is more expensive (if it were imported here), heavier, and by most reviews I've read, doesn't handle as well.


Image



Question 2:
Are you willing to pay for a "better looking" car that is more expensive, heavier, and probably doesn't handle as well?


Question 3:
Given the above photos, are the cars really "that" different?
Please note that the C1 has a more aggressive wheel/tire package.



This thread is not flame-bait, or tongue in cheek. There are no RIGHT or WRONG answers, only opinions, but it presents serious questions and I hope it gets serious and thoughtful answers.


.
Suggestion - Why not organize a FJ group and travel to Germany or some euro country that has LHD Focus, and see,feel and experience for yourselves what a C1 Focus is all about.

Or how about you so called connected people here, arrange for Ford N.A. and Ford of Mexico to have a test, side by side C170 and C1 sedan for an FJ group.

Then come back anf give some "thoughtful and credible opinions.
 
#9 ·
SilverSVT said:
I think the biggest problem we have here is that people already know what the C1 is and have been lusting for it, where as the new C170 is brand new and would never ever be able to live up to peoples expectations because of what they been wanting since 2005 or so in the C1. The newer US Focus will never get a fair shake because of this, with most people on this board.

Anyways, my thinking is this: The 08 Focus is worlds better then 05 Focus is, and thats all what matters, since the C1 Focus is non-factor because you can't even buy it here.
but that is the SMALLEST even NON-EXISTENT problem for ford, we are maybe 5%(being generous) of the entire focus buying community out there...and this 5% are the only ones who actually know or even care about Ford Europe and the C1.


So it definitely will get its "fair shake", with 95% of the buying population will see no same sheetmetal and new interior = NEW CAR


people on here need to step out of the FJ-BOX

-chris
 
#10 ·
eff said:
Suggestion - Why not organize a FJ group and travel to Germany or some euro country that has LHD Focus, and see,feel and experience for yourselves what a C1 Focus is all about.

Or how about you so called connected people here, arrange for Ford N.A. and Ford of Mexico to have a test, side by side C170 and C1 sedan for an FJ group.

Then come back anf give some "thoughtful and credible opinions.
yeh because that will solve something.:rolleyes:


there's no purpose...really, we have what we have. The C2 is already running round in test vehicles for 2010/2011.

"if you hate, wait"
 
#11 ·
Question 1: So is it really ALL about style?
Question 3: Given the above photos, are the cars really "that" different? Please note that the C1 has a more aggressive wheel/tire package.
Personally I think the two cars look completely different. The ONLY thing I think they have in common is the shape of the side windows. They have almost the same profile with the rear quarter glass angling up the same on both cars.

I also LOVE the wheel arches on the C1.....just like the C170 had before the 08 redesign. From just the side profile if the 08 C170 had the wheel arches, and got rid of the "fender grill", I would probably like it just as much as the C1.

Question 2: Are you willing to pay for a "better looking" car that is more expensive, heavier, and probably doesn't handle as well?
I already did. I bought an SVT Focus. I think it looks a lot better than a standard focus, it's also more expensive and heavier than the standard Focus was, but outside of your comparison, it does handle better than a standard Focus.

I would be willing to pay that again, even for a car that doesn't handle as well because that's the first thing I would modify anyways.....the suspension. :)
 
#13 ·
CrUziN4L said:
yeh because that will solve something.:rolleyes:


there's no purpose...really, we have what we have. The C2 is already running round in test vehicles for 2010/2011.

"if you hate, wait"
Read the title topic.

Its the only realistic or credible way to actually "compare", instead of imaginary opinions or perceptions.
 
#14 · (Edited)
Question 2:
Are you willing to pay for a "better looking" car that is more expensive, heavier, and probably doesn't handle as well?


THE SAD HONEST TRUETH IS YES, YES, YES. I wish I could say no but I know deep down in side the LOOKS of the car is the BIGGEST factor in the end almost. If I dont like the way the car looks then inside I wont like how I feel driving it. Also, I wont purchase something that I don't like looking at as it will always bother me in the back of my mind.

I may be very superficial but well thats how I feel and im sure Im not the only one as in our country look how much the looks of the opposite sex matters so much to us. There was an article written a while back about how a person in our country is more likely to have sex with someone with an STD than having sex with someone who is obese. I think LOOKS mean a lot in our society. The article went on and on about this but to me its just something else that shows how much the looks of something matters to us.

How many times have you purchased something that has a counterpart but spent a little extra caus you thought the one you wanted was cooler and looked much more appealing to your eyes.

For me case in point is the C30 almost. I think its a much better looking car and is heavier yes, but I am willing to spend the extra cash for the C30 then I would for the Focus.

Also for my opinion on the newer C170....I think it looks great from the firewall back (meaning from the front of the front doors back it looks great!) the front clip though I am still waiting til the Chicago Auto Show to see it in person and make my final thoughts on it.
 
#15 ·
SilverSVT said:
I think the biggest problem we have here is that people already know what the C1 is and have been lusting for it, where as the new C170 is brand new and would never ever be able to live up to peoples expectations because of what they been wanting since 2005 or so in the C1. The newer US Focus will never get a fair shake because of this, with most people on this board.

Anyways, my thinking is this: The 08 Focus is worlds better then 05 Focus is, and thats all what matters, since the C1 Focus is non-factor because you can't even buy it here.
B-I-N-G-O
 
#16 ·
eff said:
Suggestion - Why not organize a FJ group and travel to Germany or some euro country that has LHD Focus, and see,feel and experience for yourselves what a C1 Focus is all about.

Or how about you so called connected people here, arrange for Ford N.A. and Ford of Mexico to have a test, side by side C170 and C1 sedan for an FJ group.

Then come back anf give some "thoughtful and credible opinions.
Sounds good. Are you covering the expenses?

Having not driven the C1, I'm basing my comments made by European journalists whom I trust.
 
#17 ·
Ataru said:
I already did. I bought an SVT Focus. I think it looks a lot better than a standard focus, it's also more expensive and heavier than the standard Focus was, but outside of your comparison, it does handle better than a standard Focus.

I would be willing to pay that again, even for a car that doesn't handle as well because that's the first thing I would modify anyways.....the suspension. :)
Well, unfortunately you (along with me) seem to be in the minority, because I think you are already aware that the SVTF was canceled due (in part) to poor sales. ;)

Now if you think that a "standard" C1 Focus is going to handle as well as your SVTF I think you'd be surprised. We aren't talking about the ST here, because if people didn't want to pay under $18K for an SVTF then they certainly aren't going to pay $23K+ for a C1 ST.

And, modifying the suspension of the C1 is not going to take weight out of the car. Mass is the enemy.
 
#18 ·
Anyone that is buying a Focus, ANY Focus, for "style" is :screwy:

If that's what you're after then there are numerous other cars that are way more sexy.

The Focus was/is a good value because it's the one of best "bang for the buck" deal going.

Styling aside, which as I've mentioned may times, is subjective... the car is still a (fairly) lightweight, great handling car with an massively upgraded interior.

In Europe the MKII is considered more bland (looking) and less of a "driver's car" than the MKI (excluding the ST of course).

Despite what those for whom it's always been about "C1 or nothing" I think the car will still sell well to the general population. And once they drive the car and realize how nice it really is, they might actually become so enamored with it that they'll find their way to FJ. I welcome the potential of new blood on the forum who may bring fresh points of view. :thumbup:
 
#21 ·
focaljet-1 said:
Anyone that is buying a Focus, ANY Focus, for "style" is :screwy:

If that's what you're after then there are numerous other cars that are way more sexy.

The Focus was/is a good value because it's the one of best "bang for the buck" deal going.

Styling aside, which as I've mentioned may times, is subjective... the car is still a (fairly) lightweight, great handling car with an massively upgraded interior.

In Europe the MKII is considered more bland (looking) and less of a "driver's car" than the MKI (excluding the ST of course).

Despite what those for whom it's always been about "C1 or nothing" I think the car will still sell well to the general population. And once they drive the car and realize how nice it really is, they might actually become so enamored with it that they'll find their way to FJ. I welcome the potential of new blood on the forum who may bring new points of view. :thumbup:
I don't know man. I agree with the fact that you buy this car for the value and the fun, but in it's segment I think the only car that looks better is the Mazda 3. Also, even though the Mk II is considered less of a drivers car, it still has far superior handlign characteristics than it's rivals (from the reviews that I've read). The way I see it, my loan is up in 2010. If there's a C2 on the horizon I'll get that, if not, I'll move a bit more up-market into the 20-30k range.
 
#22 ·
focaljet-1 said:
Well, unfortunately you (along with me) seem to be in the minority, because I think you are already aware that the SVTF was canceled due (in part) to poor sales. ;)
I never heard the "official" reason the SVTF was canceled. It was my assumption that it was canned because 04 was the last year for ANY SVT labeled product plus the Duratec engine went into ALL Focuses in 05, so there would be no Zetec to go into the SVTF.

Now if you think that a "standard" C1 Focus is going to handle as well as your SVTF I think you'd be surprised. We aren't talking about the ST here, because if people didn't want to pay under $18K for an SVTF then they certainly aren't going to pay $23K+ for a C1 ST.

And, modifying the suspension of the C1 is not going to take weight out of the car. Mass is the enemy.
Oh yeah, I know it won't handle as well as the SVTF. But I'm starting to look at two areas. Competitive driving and comfortable, spirited street driving. I know it is hard to achieve both in one car so I've stopped trying. I can have a daily driver that handles well but might not be the best handling car as I wouldn't push it to its limits on the street. I would do that on the track. But to make it handle the best on the track, that would reduce it's comfort as a daily driver.

I could see the C1 Focus as being my "comfortable, spirited street driving" car but not my "track" car.

And yes, Mass is the enemy....but that doesn't stop people from buying GTis. ;)
 
#23 ·
When the Focus originally was released, nothing else on the market looked remotely like it. I would be confident in saying that the Focus' wierd styling including the strange dash design were a big part of it's success. Sure it's not a design to lust after but, if I'm buying a car I do want to be able to look at it when I'm not driving it. The Aztec was good at being versatile, would you buy one of them?

You don't buy a Focus for style, but if it looks like absolute crap then you just don't buy it in the first place. I wouldn't have given the Focus a second though if it hadn't caught my eye. I was already decided on replacing my Contour with a used VR6 Corrado, in my mind the deal was done, but a Maliblue ZX3 drove by and it looked completely diffeent than anything I'd seen. I drove a few of them and it handled well so I bought a Maliblue ZX5 to replace the Contour.

The original Focus design is hated by alot of people, and loved by everyone else, no one looked at it and could say it was bland. The US spec bumpers kinda screwed up the looks but that is an easy fix. This 2008 car looks like bland with a side of cheap chomed plastic and you can't even order the euro parts to make it right.
 
#24 ·
focaljet-1 said:
Question 1: So is it really ALL about style?

Granted, the C1 is better looking (subjective) and has a higher quality interior. But, it is more expensive (if it were imported here), heavier, and by most reviews I've read, doesn't handle as well.
Style is semi-important to me. Most of the modern cars seem to be very stylish to me. But then I started driving in 1959 and have seen a lot of diferent styles in that time.


focaljet-1 said:
Question 2:
Are you willing to pay for a "better looking" car that is more expensive, heavier, and probably doesn't handle as well?
HELL NO!! The first car I bought for myself was an Alfa Romeo Gulia and my second car was an MGA. When I bought my Focus I wasn't looking for a new vehicle ( had a 3 year old heavily modified F-150 with only 30K miles on it). But I took a test ride in a Street Edition Sedan and liked the handling so much I got rid of the truck and got a Focus.

focaljet-1 said:
Question 3:
Given the above photos, are the cars really "that" different?
Please note that the C1 has a more aggressive wheel/tire package.
Based on those photos the only difference I see is the profile of the rear. I do like the "squared off" look of the C1 better but not enough to kill a sale.

Actually I prefer the new Coupe and now I have about a year and a half to come up with some justification why I need to sell my low mileage, heavily modified sedan to buy one.
 
#25 ·
focaljet-1 said:
Anyone that is buying a Focus, ANY Focus, for "style" is :screwy:

If that's what you're after then there are numerous other cars that are way more sexy.
MAYBE the IJACs. But for the enthusiasts, that's one of the things we love. Ford is obviously going with the IJACs with the 08s as the styling of the 08 has not gone over well with the enthusiasts.

The thing is, many of us like the looks of the Focus not because it "sexy", but because its "quirky". I LOVE the styling of the Focus because it still looks different than almost every car on the road........8 years after first coming out......until the 08 redesign that is.

In Europe the MKII is considered more bland (looking) and less of a "driver's car" than the MKI (excluding the ST of course).
True.....just watch the Top Gear review:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLgn_Ou8iHc
Starting at about 1:00 into it.
 
#26 ·
At the end of the day, anyone that is a member of this forum is part of a niche market.

It's in Ford's best interest to make a car that will sell, in volume, to the masses. They are in business to make money. Not to satisfy a small group of enthusiasts.

The potential for modifying the car to make it perform better is still there, so I'm not concerned. As a matter of fact, I'm considering a Coupe.

I think that I've said everything I need to say regarding the new car for now.

I just hope that people will take the opportunity to see the car in person, see it in motion (very important in my POV) and to actually drive it, before making their final review.